I’m not sure people are reading the proposals correctly.
The proposed changes appear to be to the notification periods not when you need to notify.
The draft legislation states that:-
These Directions apply in respect of:
1(b) any ship or aircraft which it is intended will next travel from any port or airport inAs far as I can make out this means that there is no proposal to introduce outward notifications for flights that do not currently require them.
the United Kingdom to a final destination outside either the European Union or the Isle
of Man.
3 (b) in cases described in paragraph 1(b) above, no later than 2 hours before departure
from the United Kingdom,
Travelling abroad? You need to know about the GAR consultation
Most will know that HMRC introduced rather unpleasant notice periods for submitting a GAR in May 2013
the hoo hah which ensued meant HMRC said they would not enforce until more consultation had taken place
This has now been published
The proposals on the face of it don’t seem too bad- but you need to read carefully= the proposals simply dont fit in with aviation procedures and will damage frequent flyers who need short notice as well as not providing any ‘fall back’ position – Do not forget you CANNOT now just turn up unannounced even if it is a designated airport
Furthermore the new proposals will shortly be applied to out bound trips
Have a read of the summary here (it has a link to the consultation document) and complete the survey and have your say- you dont have to be a member of an Association
www.goav8.net
Alternatively you could get yourself a boat – there seems to be no appetite for making marine trips subject to the same paperwork
JM
But again – the consulatation seems to only apply to non-EU flights. Doesn’t apply to flights to or from e.g. France.
John – we did that before.
Is that wrong?
What exactly do you think is going to happen, and specifically do you think the 12/24hr PNR for the CI/Ireland/IOM will go away in exchange for a 2hr departure PNR for all flight?
IOM doesn’t (currently) require a 12hr Special Branch notice if you’re using a designated airfield. (IOM still requires the GAR form though, even if you’re using Ronaldsway). I think NI is similar. The IOM is in a common customs area with the rest of the UK so Customs is not required (unlike the Channel Islands).
The airfield has to be Designated under the Terrorism Act for that to be possible.
Shoreham EGKA isn’t, AFAIK – certainly it never was when I flew to any of those places (most recently a few months ago, IOM). I had to do a 12hr PNR with the GAR to Special Branch.
If you’re replying to this consultation, please mention that the GA red tape challenge paper results published by the Government last year:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/315312/ga-panel-report.pdf
(see page 48)
The report recommends the notice period is reduced to 1 hour (and no notice required at designated airports), and it recommends that the GAR and notice requirement is abolished for flights to NI/Eire/Isle of Man.
there’s a fair bit of misinfo going on here
1) it is absolutely NOT just about the CTA or channel Islands – fairly easy to see that with just a cursory read of the document – here
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/proposed-commissioners-directions-on-reporting-of-passenger-and-crew-information-for-customs-purposes
There are many things unsaid in the document such as what will happen with the TACT 2000 (these are the regulations which are referred to, above, in respect of IoM and NI)
These are to be replaced by new ministerial orders under the Feb 2015 Counter Terrorism Act – we dont know yet what form they will take but expect notification to be brought in line with these proposals which is why it is important to hold a line here.
The consultation document says in one place there’s really no such thing as a designated airfield and then seem s to imply that the proposals will only apply to designated and CoA airfields with no explanation as to whether the concession to allow travel to/from EU to non CoA fields will remain – Whilst the wording of the proposed CD is incomplete as it stands you would only be able to travel from designated or CoA fields – not sure if that was intended
Re IoM yes there is a loophole in the current regs which effectively means that as IoM is part of UK for VAT purposes therefore customs is not interested but this is not just a customs control but an immigration control so expect to see that anomaly stopped and IoM required to file GARs like everyone else
Re Peter’s question
sorry couldn’t open that thread but my best guess answers to your question are
1) we seem to have won the battle to get the CTA treated same as EU i.e. no more 12 hours – I might be speaking too soon as Police have yet to draft CTSA ministerial orders but I think it unlikely these notifications would return to 12 hours
2) most ‘occasional’ flyers look at 2 hours and say ’doesn’t sound to bad – well it’s not until your flying becomes less ‘elective’ For business flyers that’s most of the time and for occasional flyers it kicks in when weather start limiting your options
The Associations position is that prenotification must fit in with accepted aviation procedures i.e the deadline for submitting should be in line with flightplan or as per airlines – i.e when flight closed (EOBT)
This would make the rules unequivocal and easy to comply with
2 things make me urge support for this
1) the way regulations have been drafted (law enforcers drafting law to suit themselves) leaves so much to discretion and concession. That leads to capricious and inconsistent behaviour from officers – I have had endless chats with people who say they’ve a fantastic relationship with their local BF or plod while I have handled numerous complaints about the same locality. This comes about when some are ‘in the know’ and ‘known by’ authority whereas any amount of queries arise with visitors who are not always treated fairly – This would go away if the rules were simple clear and easy to fulfil.
2) though it is not in this document these rules or whatever comes out will be applied to outbound flights to EU by next year. I don’t know about you but I have more difficulty with 2 hours outbound than inbound
So don’t run away with a superficial view that you could live with 2 hours – could you live with 2 hours outbound? – could you put up with losing ability to fly from small fields?
GA has received more regulation than any other sector because a) there are popular myths about private flying and b) as a group we are sooooo compliant.(used to living under rules)
brgds
JM
PS cannot respond to opinions about the shape form of the poll (at this stage the old adage ‘if I was going there I wouldnt be starting from here’ does not help me or the campaign at all) but happy to receive any factual queries or info
PPS wasn’t law making by law enforcers outlawed under the US constitution ;-)
it is absolutely NOT just about the CTA or channel Islands
You might have misunderstood me — I never intended to imply that it was, I was just replying to a specific point made by Peter.
Re IoM yes there is a loophole in the current regs which effectively means that as IoM is part of UK for VAT purposes therefore customs is not interested but this is not just a customs control but an immigration control so expect to see that anomaly stopped and IoM required to file GARs like everyone else
I don’t agree that it’s a loophole. Neither a passport nor immigration is required for the Isle of Man regardless of how you get to/from the island to GB or Northern Ireland (for instance, immigration is not required if travelling on a scheduled flight, in contrast to taking a scheduled flight from France where you will have to go through passport control). If you go on the Steam Racket company I don’t think you even need ID – certainly I have never been asked for ID when going from the IOM to UK or back on the ferry. I think it’s intentional that it be considered in the same manner as Northern Ireland/Eire (in other words, the CTA).
I agree having to make a GAR for an outbound flight from the UK to the EU is dumb, and I will be making this point (in polite flowery words of course).
Ok guys
take your points
all very constructive – I fell into the trap of using Home Office speak about the IoM situation – of course it’s not a loophole
The GA panel report was very powerful – much of this made it into th eDfT strategy statement and we are reminidng HMRC of this but not in fact the precise recommendation of 1 Hour
Thansk for the ehads up I will weave some more words for the Associations
MEanwhile y’all it is open to all comers
I’ll try to post a document on Association policy once it is reviewed
meanwhile I have permission to publish an Irish perspective document – wiiltry to put that on Goav8.net tomorrow
There are a lot of people making very good points
