It’s such a shame that the pool of airports becomes ever smaller! With closures, reduced hours, long PPR or total withdrawal of customs / immigration.
I really would like the 12 hours for the Channel Islands and IOM rethought it is very restricting for impromptu trips and seems total over kill.
Peter wrote:
This just looks more and more like a political finger-up to non Schengen countries, which is basically the UK in this case.
Not everything is about pissing off the English. Obviously it’s a bonus if it’s a side effect 
Police forces in France are under an unbelievable amount of pressure. Sure, some of their missions might be considered (by us) as no more than arm waving to reassure the public; but there’s a lot more than that going on.
Abbeville was a bit of a joke, to be honest.
Peter wrote:
This just looks more and more like a political finger-up to non Schengen countries, which is basically the UK in this case.
I don’t think that’s the case here. Political stuff usually has public backing, don’t see a lot of the public knowing anything about Pilot’s procedures from non Schengen countries.
However they really should make an agreement that aircraft below a certain MTOW can land anywhere in both UK and France without Immigration check and without GAR. They can then do random checks based on the flight plans if they really want to. How hard is it to reach this agreement?! When I was living in the UK I suggested this on UK’s “Reduce Red tape challenge”. All we got was a reduction in the GAR notice period.
But that would make us Pilot’s life too easy.
I can’t see how refugees would come flooding in on PA28s!
The best thing would be for all of Europe to adopt the UK GAR system. That would deal with all extra Schengen traffic. I don’t think they can go on flight plans because you can file one with a few mins before EOBT. Also they get lost so often that the destination won’t turn the traffic away anyway.
And frankly I think Schengen will die sooner or later, in today’s terrorist climate. Most of Europe’s security forces would like it suspended right now but politically they can’t do it overtly.
France works in strange ways when it comes to their policing. As posted here previously, I saw 15 policemen turn up at Le Touquet recently. 1 was checking passports (very deliberately and very very slowly). The other 14 (I counted them) were standing around doing nothing. But presumably somebody ordered them to go there, and that somebody must have had a reason, which could not have been valid other than a show of force (unless they were expecting some terrorist act… at Le Touquet??). But there is nobody at Le Touquet to do a show of force for. Just a load of visiting (mostly foreign) pilots, and a few airport employees who all know what a French policeman looks like. There is little or no French public; they are on the beach and they mostly come by car from Paris. So it seems totally random. IMHO they are running around like headless chickens, and possibly are concentrating their disorganised resources by withdrawing police from some airports to which they almost never go anyway but might be attending when something bad happens in Paris.
I also think there is a lot of anger over Brexit. It is undeniable. It is all over social media. Anger within the UK among those who voted IN, and anger on the continent (among a similar % – roughly 50%) that the UK has dared to do the unthinkable.
The UK police who go around airfields doing this job are not as headless as the above but still do seem to work on strange intelligence. I have been picked up for the most bizzare reasons.
Peter wrote:
I also think there is a lot of anger over Brexit. It is undeniable. It is all over social media.
It is undeniable and understandable… I don’t want to make this another Brexit thread.
However there are a lot of people who like me got a slap in the face by the Brexit vote. I have lived and worked in the UK for nearly 10 years of my adult life. I even had two children there. I have paid loads of taxes, have not used any of their schools/NHS or any public services before moving there. I’ve always considered UK to be an open, friendly and welcoming country. What do I get with the Brexit vote? “We don’t want you because you weren’t born here. You will now have to go through a point system to come here again”. In the future I will likely be in a situation were my children will be allowed to live/work there (they’re British) however I wont.
Peter wrote:
The best thing would be for all of Europe to adopt the UK GAR system.
I would say a better system than the GAR would be a system with no GAR at all. The GAR would be great only if Schengen fails. Hopefully it doesn’t and the situation improves.
geekyflyer wrote:
I would say a better system than the GAR would be a system with no GAR at all. The GAR would be great only if Schengen fails. Hopefully it doesn’t and the situation improves.
I would agree on that, if you travel regularly (be it commercial or private) the real value of Europe and Schengen shows. Clearly the EU will (and has to in order to protect the European project) negotiate very hard with the UK. You can already see that in the very clear position that if the UK wants access to the single market, it will need to comply with free movement of people and goods. So basically in or out will need to comply with exactly the same rules only now will you have no say in how those are drafted. I can honestly not see much changing any time soon, nor do I see how a real exit from the EU for the UK is still realistic.
We don’t want you because you weren’t born here
Let me pick up that one small point only… after 5 years in the UK you can get the passport, as I did (born in CZ), so this (currently hypothetical) issue falls away.
I am not getting into the rest 
We also have a thread on the GAR and Brexit specifically
I would say a better system than the GAR would be a system with no GAR at all.
Well, yes, of course, but the political/security reality is that one isn’t going to get that. Let’s face it – if Schengen was starting today, no major country would vote for it. It would seem totally crazy.
In aviation, only GA is assisted by Schengen. In airline travel, your details are delivered electronically to all the security agencies before the plane lands (even if the flight was from Frankfurt to Cologne) and police at the destination airport are briefed on anyone on board who needs to be looked at via the one-way mirror or the cameras you walk past. In GA this doesn’t happen so predictably the powers want some advance personnel manifest so they can decide whether to intercept you after landing. The UK GAR does this effectively, to enable the “flying squad” to drive to the said airfield if the manifest says there is an Irish citizen (=IRA ) on board.
Of course the separate argument that 12hrs is not needed for the CTA etc is 100% valid; IMHO that is just something the police are holding onto as a bargaining chip against some future proposals. But say a 2hr or 4hr GAR for returning is reasonable in the context of typical GA travel. 12hrs is not reasonable, and it is hard how it can have an operational justification.
Peter wrote:
after 5 years in the UK
6 Years, it’s 5 for permanent residency and then 1 more for citizenship.
Now the process got more complicated for EU citizens (since a couple of month), as allegedly, one needs to apply for a document certifying permanent residency and only one year after that can get the citizenship. So, even if you have been living here for 8 years, you could only get the citizenship a year after you get that document. Pretty stupid system in my view, as you are not applying for permanent residency but for a document certifying you have it (my understanding is you get it automatically after 5 years).
I went through the process 2 years ago and it was really easy. Much much more than getting my Portuguese passport (born french but lived for 25 years in portugal, from 0-25).
My point of doing the British passport ASAP (at the time there wasn’t that much discussion on brexit) was mostly that as the value of having one increases (due to future events), the difficulty of getting one will increase too. I think it was a good decision!
Peter wrote:
after 5 years in the UK you can get the passport
Unfortunately you have to be living there… and the years need to be consecutive. I cannot go back there say for a couple of years and apply for passport now. Anyways won’t say anything else about it. I was only giving it as an example towards the point that there is a lot anger directed toward Brexiters.
Noe wrote:
My point of doing the British passport ASAP … I think it was a good decision!
It was!
Peter wrote:
In aviation, only GA is assisted by Schengen.
Am I the only one who was stuck at Heathrow during peak season in the passport control queue with one screaming baby and an over tired toddler? :)
My point is that you don’t realize how great Schengen is until you live in a Schengen country.
geekyflyer wrote:
My point is that you don’t realize how great Schengen is until you live in a Schengen country.
I wholly agree. It’s the CAT passengers who mostly benefit! Arriving into the London airports is often a pain. The other day I had to wait a good 15-20, at City! And i’ve definitely waited often 40mins at stansted (most was 2h30).
Having to do customs when flying to/from the UK from the EU is a UK wish, so I can see how other countries can be incentivized to make next to zero effort to make it much easier.
