Rwy20 wrote:
I guess had he been on the N register, this could not have happened…
Not so sure. Journey log is mandatory as per EASA Operations regulations and ICAO AFAIU.
Yes, but you don’t have to keep the historic records (discussed here before).
Aviathor wrote:
Not so sure. Journey log is mandatory as per EASA Operations regulations and ICAO AFAIU.
It’s absurd the number of logs one must fill out.
at least after every day’s flying if not every flight. Four bloody log entries!
Surely just filling out one is sufficient, and then just a single line in the airframe, engine or prop log as applicable when maintenance is carried out, using the journey log to calculate the interval? That’s what’s effectively done on N-reg, IIRC – usually just using tach hours (at least as far as I remember, from when I had the Cessna 140…)
So much duplication! So much so I’m thinking of writing a program to take the G5’s log so I can print out these logs and just stick them in the applicable log books rather than having to painstakingly copy every single one.
Then when you get done filling out reams of paper for a 20 minute joyride, then you have to fill in your own damned pilot logbook too.
alioth wrote:
at least after every day’s flying if not every flight. Four bloody log entries!
Huh? We never fill in anything other than the journey log. The other logs are kept by the maintenance organisation and only used to log maintenance etc.
alioth wrote:
Surely just filling out one is sufficient, and then just a single line in the airframe, engine or prop log as applicable when maintenance is carried out, using the journey log to calculate the interval? That’s what’s effectively done on N-reg, IIRC – usually just using tach hours (at least as far as I remember, from when I had the Cessna 140…)
In FAA land, the only log that is typically filled out after every flight is the pilot logbook, and even that is by choice as long as you can by any means prove a current flight review and enough recent time to carry passengers (as/if applicable). I know people who rarely log their flights, mainly people who have so many professional flight hours they don’t care any more.
FAA maintenance logbook entries are done only after actual work or inspection is performed. I do use tach time for aircraft maintenance, there is no other record of how many hours the plane is flown.
I fill in (N-reg)
and the A&P signs the propeller logbook periodically, at inspections (I do most 50hr checks with him).
So 5 logbooks.
I know most owners don’t get involved in the airframe, engine and prop records, but also many owners lose these (or have a lot of trouble recovering them) when the company goes bust. Also, from emails I have, many get into problems with the company refusing to hand them over due to a dispute… one can imagine there are two sides to those stories 
A google translate of the German article (top post) doesn’t illuminate it
What is a “flight book”? It sounds like the journey log, which is what a maintenance company would use to schedule maintenance. (in a school in the UK this is based on a “tech log” which is a similar thing).
But, anyway, if maintenance was avoided or missed due to this, significantly, that is plain dumb because on a Swiss-reg the plane isn’t airworthy, so definitely no insurance. On a low use plane, this could mean the oil has not been changed all year, which is dumb but not dangerous (probably get a lot more corrosion and wear). Presumably an Annual was still done?
There have been cases mentioned in accident reports of really no maintenance for years. I recall reading one particular damning one (G-reg IIRC) where it had not been serviced for many years. But you can’t easily do that unless keeping the plane out of “the system” completely.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Huh? We never fill in anything other than the journey log. The other logs are kept by the maintenance organisation and only used to log maintenance etc.
You are probably paying them to copy entries from the journey logs into the airframe, engine and propeller logs, then. Those log entries are still getting made even if you’re not the one who’s physically putting pen to paper.
I have a permit aircraft, and have no maintenance organisation, just an LAA inspector. I’m responsible for my own maintenance so I get to see the absurdity of how many log entries you have to fill out for a simple, privately owned aircraft not engaged in public transport.
Personally, I wouldn’t let a maintenance organisation keep my logbooks, just like what happens with my LAA inspector, they get them when maintenance gets done but otherwise they live with me.
alioth wrote:
You are probably paying them to copy entries from the journey logs into the airframe, engine and propeller logs, then. Those log entries are still getting made even if you’re not the one who’s physically putting pen to paper.
I do not think this is common practice in Sweden, definitiely not after every single flight. However, when the annual is done you can fill in the actual flight time of the aircraft in the other logs just to keep track of it. But that is just one line, not every flight.
I would check the regs on this. I think you are actually supposed to update aircraft logs after every flight. Of course almost nobody does.
FAA and EASA will likely be different.
Presumably the problem here was that while there might have been only 17 flights identified as not recorded, and recording those would not have put the plane over any maintenance limits, the authorities supsect that 17 were just the ones that that they could identify, and believed that more had been missing.
I also have to admit, that the excuse of being too stressed to write them up doesn’t read well to me. It brings the thought to me mind, that if he was that stressed, should he have been flying in the first place?
