dublinpilot wrote:
What’s the point in splitting the BFR from the checkout?
Cost is a factor. BFRs can be reasonably costly. Also some schools are very relaxed about the checkout which can be a bit of a pain if you are very current and comfortable on type. I havent flown a 22 for a few years but I did a 20 minute flight (which was for another purpose anyway as it happened) and the rental company were happy and I was good to go. That worked for me, but I accept not for everyone and many good reasons to combine the BFR with the check flight. Part of this will be whether you need the “ground school” and I gather a BFR might routinely take a full morning with around an hour of flight time and a similiar amount of ground time with inevitably both often becoming a little longer.So depending on the individual it can be quite nice to already have the BFR out of the way, and most reasonable places will set you with an instructor to chat through the some of the preflight issues and brief review of airspace if that is all you need, but absolutely no reason not to combine both of course.
Noe wrote:
I haven’t ever done a BFR but according to the examiner who signed my papers, I only need it after 2 years of issue (it has been less than one).
The bolded part is the key. Did you get your airman certificate from a DPE (designated pilot examiner) after actually flying with them or from the FSDO without any flight activities? If the former and you are within two years, you do not need a BFR. If the latter, you do.
Peter wrote:
But the UK does not have the State issued “identity cards” which are quite common on mainland Europe, and those may be acceptable.
No, they are not acceptable, usually not even at private establishments (i.e. bars to prove your age). Identitiy cards are only acceptable in contries that have specific bilateral or multilateral agreements with the issuing country. That’s not the case between the USA and any of the European countries.
dublinpilot wrote:
What’s the point in splitting the BFR from the checkout?
If you have a tight schedule and reasonably comfortable in the type (=expect short checkout), having a BFR will substantially increase the time necessary to complete the whole ordeal.
JnsV wrote:
The bolded part is the key. Did you get your airman certificat from a DPE (designated pilot examiner) after actually flying with them or from the FSDO without any flight activities? If the former and you are within two years, you do not need a BFR. If the latter, you do.
Actually I think it is more about did you get a 61.56 Flight review and is it entered in your logbook or not. Whether from a DPE or not, you must have one. Flying with a
JasonC wrote:
Actually I think it is more about did you get a 61.56 Flight review and is it entered in your logbook or not. Whether from a DPE or not, you must have one.
Not necessarily…
§61.56 Flight review.
bq. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
bq. (d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed any of the following need not accomplish the flight review required by this section:
bq. (1) A pilot proficiency check or practical test conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege.
So in my understanding is that if you get your temporary airman certificate from a DPE after actually conducting a practical test, you do not need to have the BFR entered in your logbook as such. Of course you need some kind of proof for the practical test, like a signed logbook entry.
It is of course possible to fly with a DPE without conducting a practical test (though I am not sure that they would issue the temp certificate without one…), but that kind of defeats the point of flying with an examiner and paying them.
JnsV wrote:
So in my understanding is that if you get your temporary airman certificate from a DPE after actually conducting a practical test, you do not need to have the BFR entered in your logbook as such. Of course you need some kind of proof for the practical test, like a signed logbook entry.
You are right and I nearly included that exception, however if you are applying for a 61.75, you can’t hold another stand alone certificate so hard to see how you are doing a flight test.
It is of course possible to fly with a DPE without conducting a practical test (though I am not sure that they would issue the temp certificate without one…), but that kind of defeats the point of flying with an examiner and paying them.
The only two DPEs in Europe issue them all the time and flying has nothing to do with it. Anyone who seeks out a DPE for a BFR is a masochist….
JasonC wrote:
You are right and I nearly included that exception, however if you are applying for a 61.75, you can’t hold another stand alone certificate so hard to see how you are doing a flight test.
I don’t follow your logic. You don’t hold a US certificate, so you do a practical test conducted by an examiner (…) for a pilot certificate.
When I got my own piggyback license a year ago, it was my understanding that I had two options:
- get certificate from FSDO and do BFR with an instructor before exercising privileges
- do a flight test with a DPE and then get the certificate with the immediate possibility to exercise the privileges
The only two DPEs in Europe issue them all the time and flying has nothing to do with it.
In this case there would indeed be a third option, i.e. get the cert from the DPE and pay him (instead of getting it from the FSDO for free) and do the BFR with an instructor.
Anyone who seeks out a DPE for a BFR is a masochist….
I totally agree with this.
But my advice to the OP stands: if he was actually examined by the DPE to get his certificate, then he does not need a BFR, even if only the exam is not logged as a flight review. (And don’t do a BFR if you don’t have to… You can still go over your plans with the checkout instructor or fly a longer checkout/familirisation flight, but doing a BFR has a very good chance of substantially increasing the ground and flight time necessary.)
if you get your temporary airman certificate from a DPE after actually conducting a practical test
Sure; a checkride for e.g. a CPL or an IR counts as a BFR.
Anyone who seeks out a DPE for a BFR is a masochist….
True, but I know one man who did exactly that 
JnsV wrote:
No, they are not acceptable, usually not even at private establishments (i.e. bars to prove your age). Identitiy cards are only acceptable in countries that have specific bilateral or multilateral agreements with the issuing country. That’s not the case between the USA and any of the European countries.
Believe it or not some individual European countries have bilateral agreements with some individual US states covering driver’s licencing.
That aside and FWIW, German ID cards worked fine recently for my 21 year old relatives, at multiple locations, to try every kind of beer under the sun What FAA or TSA might want to satisfy Federal law is not clear to me but customarily in the US the requirement for ‘government furnished photo ID’ is somewhat flexible because people in the US don’t carry anything other than US state driver’s licenses, which are in substantially diffferent formats from different states. So in a bar they see and accept a kaleidoscope of different ID appearances. However, I don’t know if German ID cards would have worked like a US state drivers license to (for instance) board a US domestic airline flight.
Regardless, the nice thing about using a passport as photo ID anywhere in the world is that its universally understood – all countries have them.
JnsV wrote:
When I got my own piggyback license a year ago, it was my understanding that I had two options:
….
- do a flight test with a DPE and then get the certificate with the immediate possibility to exercise the privileges
A flight test for what? There is no generic flight test. Flight test means a PPL, CPL or ATP flight test. You could I guess combine the 61.75 with an instrument check ride to get US test passed on the 61.75. And you would then be good to go.
When I got my own piggyback license a year ago, it was my understanding that I had two options:
No there is one choice, get a 61.75. Then you get a BFR or do some sort of flight or rating test to be able to use it.
True, but I know one man who did exactly that
Hardly a role model though… :)
Silvaire wrote:
Believe it or not some individual European countries have bilateral agreements with some individual US states covering driver’s licencing.
Surely for driver’s licensing there are agreements, and in practice you can pretty much drive anywhere in the US with any European license or vice versa.
That aside and FWIW, German ID cards worked fine recently for my 21 year old relatives, at multiple locations, to try every kind of beer under the sun
This has not been our experience in Massechusets and to a lesser extent in Upstate New York.Silvaire wrote:
So in a bar they see and accept a kaleidoscope of different ID appearances.
This was exactly their reason for the refusal. And to be honest, they were totally correct in stating that they had no chance of knowing how the actual card was supposed to look.
However, I don’t know if German ID cards would have worked like a US state drivers license for (for instance) boarding a US domestic airline flight.
Good idea, I will try it next time. :-)
JasonC wrote:
No there is one choice, get a 61.75. Then you get a BFR or do some sort of flight or rating test to be able to use it.
I re-read the regs. You are right, I stand corrected.
