Thanks for all the answers. I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who sees a 4.5 – 5-hour blanket minimum unnecessary.
boscomantico wrote:
Some schools also do it because they have had a lot of bad experiences with rentals, and some try to reduce the risks by doing very thorough checkouts.
I highly doubt that this would be the case here. I did such a type conversion course with another school for the above-mentioned Arrow. In the 5 hours then, we did about 60-70 minutes airwork and the rest was all circuits at the very same airport. While some of it was useful (especially the day when I convinced the instructor to go flying in max. demonstrated crosswind conditions), I did find the 2.2-hour checkout (including BFR and Catalina-checkout) in California for the same type much more comprehensive and useful to determine whether I would be able to go to places with the plane and bring it back in one piece.
It’s a market though, Tell them you won’t consider their offer due to the excessive minumum they put on you. They might either reduce the hours in your case, or review their policy entirely. Or do nothing at all.
They did the last, so won’t get any money from me, that’s for sure.
If they can find enough people who accept this, then there is little you can do exept to try to find more reasonable people.
The last place I called yesterday was my hope in this regard. I got to them using a personal referral, who said that even if the big schools require this nonsense, this 3-person small outfit would not.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
When I rented I never questioned such minimum requirements because I thought it was such a privilege to be able to rent in the first place (however, no one demanded 4.5 hours).
I don’t think renting from a commercial outfit should be considered a privilege. A usable rental network would hugely increase the utility of a PPL.
Bathman wrote:
To answer your question as someone who rents a C172 out is its as many hours as required.
This is what I would expect from anyone.
I’ve had a bit of this looking for a second rental base in the US recently (On the other coast – I’ve done so many of these coast to coast trips!). Checkout requirements reasonable, but daily minimums of 4 and even 5 Hrs per day make VFR trips hard work. This is really saying “rental isn’t our business”.
Of course many punters who phone up for multi day rentals are just fantasists who never show up anyway, so you can understand them setting the bar high. I’ll never forget the expression on the CFI’s face at the club in Ardmore, New Zealand when I walked in on the appointed day and hour wanting my check ride for my 2 week rental. I was the first Brit who’d ever actually shown up for such an appointment apparently.
And then there’s the renter who dumps the plane in the back of beyond “because it wouldn’t start” etc. and gets a commercial flight home. That happens.
One FBO actually said to me “These planes (172’s) fly 30 hours per week” to justify a high minimum. Well no they don’t (not while I was there anyway) so in real life a qualified long distance rental customer is money in the bank with 2-3 hrs per day compared with the uncertainties of training ops.
I think the answer to this is to persevere and become fully accredited with an FBO where you build a proper relationship. But then you call up one day to discover they’ve been sold to a new owner who now wants 4 Hrs minimum, it’s back to square one!
Even when I was a newbie green PPL’er I’ve never used more that 1,5 hours max for a SEPL diff check.
Of course anybody who can fly a Warrior, 172, TB10 or 152 does not need longer than one hour (normally) for the check out in any other of these types. Not so when you go from an older 172 to an SR22, which IS a non-complex airplane.
If you have never flown a glass cockpit you will need a couple of hours to feel really at home, and then there’s a couple of news systems you have never dealt with aswell: advanced autopilot, CAPS, EGPWS, Stormscope, Traffic, … I would say at least 5 hours to fly VFR safely. The usual 10 hours of the Cirrus transition program should be an average if you want to fly IFR, because then you should know how to deal with the all electric systems and the most important failure scenarios.
If you have never flown a glass cockpit you will need a couple of hours to feel really at home, and then there’s a couple of news systems you have never dealt with aswell: advanced autopilot, CAPS, EGPWS, Stormscope, Traffic, … I would say at least 5 hours to fly VFR safely. The usual 10 hours of the Cirrus transition program should be an average if you want to fly IFR, because then you should know how to deal with the all electric systems and the most important failure scenarios.
Sounds about right. Our club requires 8 hours of difference training for the SR20 with glass cockpit. At 250€/hour that amounts to 2000€ just to be able to fly the aircraft. They also have a 50h post PPL minimum TT for flying the Cirrus, which I find less reasonable.
MedEwok wrote:
They also have a 50h post PPL minimum TT for flying the Cirrus, which I find less reasonable.
That will be an insurance requirement and makes sense to me.
Most probably not. None of the German insurance docs of SR2x aircraft that I have seen over the years had minimum TT requirements. Most just have an “x hours on type” clause (irrespective of the avionics style by the way – shows how clueless many insurances are).
Might be different in other countries.
Anyway, getting OT. The OP seemed to go from steam 152 to steam 172. Very very very unlikely that the rental company’s insurance states a minimum of 4.5 hours of dual for that…
boscomantico wrote:
Anyway, getting OT. The OP seemed to go from steam 152 to steam 172. Very very very unlikely that the rental company’s insurance states a minimum of 4.5 hours of dual for that…
Agreed. And to the OP, that is a stupid requirement. If it takes you that long between those types, you prob shouldn’t be flying.
JnsV wrote:
how many hours are necessary to transition to a new non-complex SEP type for day VFR operations?
Sweden used to require differences training for every aircraft type — even SEP. My conversion from C172 to PA28 (immediately after getting my PPL) took about one hour and involved slow flight, stall and landing exercises. My next conversion (at about 100 hr TT) was to a PA32R and that took 3 hours if I recall correctly.
Airborne_Again wrote:
My next conversion (at about 100 hr TT) was to a PA32R and that took 3 hours if I recall correctly.
But essentially that was also adding retractable gear which adds time.
