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The "Mk 1 Eyeball" / lookout / see and avoid are almost totally useless

That runs counter to my general experience.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Same, I do a couple a year without issues (usually on Saturday afternoons or sunday morning, but ocasionally when they are open).
But I thought I’d add the data point.

On the other hand, I got stellar service yesterday when coming back from France (from the eastern part, this time), with what would essentially be a glide descent from Southend EGMC (overhead at ~FL100) to North weald EGSX.

UK airspace/infringe drama aside (haven’t we had enough of it for the next 100 years?)

Read the document. I still think people miss the point. What we want to avoid is hitting another aircraft. The possibility of that happening is negligible under normal flying circumstances. By knowing/seeing every aircraft around you, you make that probability less than negligible. How much less? Try to put a number on it, it’s impossible.

We have information, ATC, radio. In combination with good lookout and proper behaviour around airfields this is good enough IMO.

I also fly with FLARM when towing gliders, but the density, aircraft per cube km, is much higher than anything else in GA, aircraft at least, and the FLARM is no substitute for good lookout.

People can install whatever they want, for their own peace of mind. Peace of mind is not the same as increased safety.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Good post, and thank you for bringing this back on topic

I agree re the risk, except in the arrival/departure phases, when one gets an awful lot closer to traffic – even at an ATC airfield. I had a scary moment on my last flight actually: a helicopter hovering a few hundred feet below the final approach path, Mode C thankfully. It was the police helicopter doing some “assignment” there. But it could easily have been yet another “minimal-currency cowboy” flying the final at ~600ft AAL 3nm out…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think pilot to pilot advisories are your best bet when near an airport, used with discipline and without excess chatter. The traffic flow near an airport is fairly structured and a few words convey a lot of meaning – particularly in regard to what the plane will do next, which no electronic system is good at.

The renaissance man coroner making his opinion on aviation safety known strikes me as Pythonesque comedy. I generally agree with @LeSving post #24 above. Re ADS-B IN, as I mentioned above i think it’s one more imperfect tool in the pilots toolbox, based on my experience in using it for every flight for something under a year now, in very densely flown airspace. Technologists (I am one) so often look for a ‘silver bullet’, but such a thing does not often exist.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 07 Aug 13:37

I think the issue is population penetration (sounds dodgy).

If everybody had the active TAS (TCAS1) and everybody had a Mode C txp on, it would work very well.

If everybody was emitting certified ADS-B OUT and everybody had ADS-B IN (certified or not), that would work even better (if properly integrated into the aircraft systems, which “portable” systems aren’t, generally).

Neither of the above are likely to ever be the case in Europe.

So we will for ever be looking out, for the “non participants”, whose numbers are likely to increase – in the UK at least.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

If everybody had the active TAS (TCAS1) and everybody had a Mode C txp on, it would work very well.

I don’t have TCAS and never will, but my iPad and Stratus box (integrated into the aircraft well BTW) shows all traffic with Mode C in areas with ADS-B transmitting ground stations – which means the areas I fly where there is a bunch of traffic, 99.9% of which is under Radar coverage and has Mode C. So ADS-B OUT actually has nothing to do with traffic awareness in these areas, its only purpose (like Mode S) is to show your tail number.

Based on that experience, traffic displayed in the cockpit is not a solution that will ever eliminate occasional mid-air collisions in densely flown areas. I’m not 100% convinced it will make any difference, looking at how and where mid-airs occur in my area, meaning mainly in or near the traffic pattern where people are busy flying the plane, but I suppose it may and I will continue to use it. What would be useful is much better presentation and escalation of threat provided to the pilot than a ‘million’ little planes on a 2D moving map – which at times borders on being useless.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 07 Aug 16:09

Silvaire,

Is your aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out or just a portable ADS-B In device?

KUZA, United States

The plane was until recently ADS-B portable IN only, but now has newly installed GTX 335 1090ES ADS-B OUT. In my area this change generally has no effect on IN as there is always another aircraft close by that is requesting the data.

(Oddly to me, and as a slight aside, it is necessary to specify that you want the IN data when setting up the GTX 335 because unless you do, if nobody nearby is requesting the data you won’t get it)

Last Edited by Silvaire at 07 Aug 20:28

I was operating today near the Husband Bosworth glider meet (competition, whatever it was).

I saw so many gliders on PilotAware (presumably FLARM?) that I never saw by eyeball that I eventually gave up on my intended mission on the grounds of safety.

I just can’t see why people wouldn’t want EC.

EGKB Biggin Hill
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