I permanently carry
and yes I do think that it is quite possible to end up somewhere where there is no GSM signal, and if there is GSM but no GPS then you still can’t tell anybody where you are. Also it is likely impossible to send your phone location to S&R because you can send it only to a GSM number / whatsapp / telegram, and the numbers I have are just land numbers. Also the last two need mobile data which sometimes doesn’t work when roaming.
The sleeping bags could well come in handy.
Snoopy wrote:
There have been cases were pilots successfully landed off-airport or in a mountain area
I truly enjoy reading Hermann’s Geiger book and frankly speaking I’m thrilled by rescue missions he flew… Back in 2008 or 2009 I landed out in an an airfield somewhere in the middle of Alps. It was late evening, early September and a beautiful, sunny day, with temperatures en Provence well above 25C. Can’t remember airfield elevation now but I felt cold as soon as I landed. I was wearing a t-shirt and sandals but was ashamed to ask folks at the airfield for something warm or for any help. At that time I didn’t realise what was about to happen, I was hoping my crew will be there any moment. Very soon the sun went down and everyone on the airfield went home. So, there I was, alone, high up in the Alps at night wearing a t-shit and sandals. 
I seriously I though I will freeze. Used my parachute to create some king of cocoon, found a rag I kept in cockpit for cleaning canopy and made a hat from it. Will never forget stars shining so bright in the sky and will never again fly without warm sweater.
Peter wrote:
I do think that it is quite possible to end up somewhere where there is no GSM signal
I would say it’s possible, but somewhat unlikely, at lease in the region of Europe defined by OP
Peter wrote:
if there is GSM but no GPS then you still can’t tell anybody where you are.
Rescue services can define your position by triangulation, no need for GPS in this case
From my experience I can say that there will be people around you within 30 minutes of your forced landing even if you haven’t told anyone that you would be landing there.
In case of a crash there might be (serious) wounds and broken bones. So, I guess, besides a lot of water the most important stuff is medical aid. Strong multipurpose antibiotics and strong painkillers, bandages, ointment, disinfection, splints to fix bones… the stuff that special forces corpsman are carrying.
This is an intersting thread as I also do some sailing and both have risks. From a sailing point of view there is a discussion to be had about what to carry as with bluewater sailing you may truly be on your own for a considerable time. Even relatively short distances off the coast of the UK you are out of range of rotary and lifeboats so are reliant on other vessels. In some of the remoter parts of the Pacific it may be days.
However with “normal” GA I think some of the suggestions are out of context. Self medication and planning for days in the wilderness I dont believe shoud be the priority. Rescue is usually but hours away, so the priority still seems to me to be communication. I appreciate we arent necessarily talking about the sea, but with sea landings, it is even more critical – in north atlantic waters, and even in in shore waters and esturaries the key is being recovered as quickly as possible.
PLBs and EPIRBs all make sense but if you havent got away a Mayday there is probably the inevitable hour or so delays before SAR is activated and then they still need to find you. Time is of the essence, and I still think a sat phone is your best bet so you can pretty much guarantee telling someone where you are down and need urgent help. Some means of keeping yourself warm is the second priority, if exposure is a consideraton it will kill very rapidly. I guess a tournique might just save you 1 time in 100 while you are waiting. Beyond that you should be recovered before anything else becomes necessary.
Of course the sat phone and beacon may not work for some reason but you would then have been truly unlucky and I guess if you really want to cover every base you could have all sorts of extra kit.
BTW we pretty much all carry GPS and being able to quickly shout out your position before you “land” seems a key priority as well, because, as I have said, the key with GA I think is for the rescue services knowing where to find you.
I accept the caveat to all of this is flying in really bad weather in very remote areas where it may not be possible to launch a recovery, but still it is unlikely this will be so long as to make the other elements vital as long as you can protect yourself from exposure.
Thanks.
MedEWok, your input on first aid and medication to carry?
No mention of large poly bags? And garden refuse bags?
I’ve slept comfortably in a sleeping bag, inside a large poly bag, when sea canoe cruising in April on the Scottish west coast. Not good long term as the sleeping bag gets damp in wet weather.
I carry a solid fuel device for cooking. The fuel can also be used as a fire starter.
I also carry insect repellent in the relevant seasons.
In the US I carry my day hike bag, with its water supply.
The Jodel 1050 has a poor heater, and a draughty cockpit, so my clothing is suitable.
Survival kit should be suited to the experience and fitness of the intended users.
Speaking personally, a PLB, a bottle of water and some very warm clothes (I have an open cockpit so they’re necessary anyway). Chocolate might give a nice boost to morale, but I’d probably eat it before crashing.
I think you raise a good point – a space blanket would be a good addition for very little weight. I’m also going to consider carrying some warming packs. However, overall I tend to agree that if you can call for help in Europe you probably shouldn’t need to survive independently for more than a few hours. If you can’t call for help then it could potentially be a very long time before you’re found. I often consider in Wales that I’m probably off radar for most of the time – certainly can’t get a basic service at low altitude. If I crashed and couldn’t tell people where I was, it could be a very long time before I was found.
This article suggests that less than half of the UK landmass has mobile phone coverage
Hang-gliders and paragliders tend to carry a spool of thin string (sometimes dental floss) with the idea that if you get stuck in a tree you can use it to pull up a thicker rope to help the climbers reach you to get you down.
In case of a crash there might be (serious) wounds and broken bones. So, I guess, besides a lot of water the most important stuff is medical aid. Strong multipurpose antibiotics and strong painkillers, bandages, ointment, disinfection, splints to fix bones… the stuff that special forces corpsman are carrying.
I don’t know your background but unless you use these things on a regular basis e.g. as an emergency doctor or or paramedic, I would suggest they’re hard to use safely and effectively. TBH I wouldn’t bother with an extensive medical kit, even though I know how to use the stuff. There’s significant hassle in getting antibiotics, at least in the UK, if you’re not a doctor. If you can get picked up by a big helicopter within an hour, the IV Ceftriaxone they will give you in a trauma centre will probably hit you sooner and harder than the Co-Amoxiclav you might take orally. You might also end up causing anaphylaxis with nothing to treat it. You might get away with carrying Co-Codamol 30/500 which are prescription only but common enough that most people have some left in the bathroom. That’s not an altogether bad idea, but if you got caught carrying any strong painkillers or administering them to friends and family then you could get into significant trouble – especially if flying cross-borders or if your friends stop breathing after you’ve administered them. If you’re a pilot in a crash you probably don’t want to a be filling your body with sedating opioids prior to the accident investigation, and illegally administering prescription medicines to other people. Splints… Fine, but it’s all weight and a lot of these things can be improvised anyway. A pelvic binder can be made out of a coat. A stick can serve as a splint.
This is all situational. If you were flying through Africa I would agree that a more extensive medical kit and training would make sense. But within Europe a reliable form of communication is much more likely to save your life.
Agreed, depends where you are. Recent trip UK – Mozambique: PLB, insect repellent, blankets, first-aid kit, Swiss Army knife (turned out to be the most useful accessory), hand fuel pump, loads of water. Avoid South Sudan, plan to force-land next to caravan of camels and hope the locals are friendly. Most important survival aid: Second engine 
I got an email from one pilot who only reads EuroGA:
There is an interesting thread on safety equipment / comms for crash. No one has mentioned the DeLorme (now Garmin) InReach, which I find surprising. It’s a great tool – allows sending of text messages over Iridium with GPS coordinates.
I guess one Q would be the ownership cost. One could buy an old Thuraya satphone (the old 7100 has a GPS and can send an SMS with the location) and stick say $100 on the SIM and last I looked into this Thuraya strip something like $35/year from the balance. In previous years they confiscated the whole balance after x months where x depended on how much you prepaid but x was never more than 12 months. I would be surprised if DeLorme had no similar regular cost.
However you presumably need someone who will watch the messages…?
