I have made dozens of take-offs at EBSH when my daughter and friend were gliding there. The Bonanza works best with up to 20 °of flaps on grass. This procedure is no longer in the POH.
Yes you can do it, but be aware that in case of a backward CG (i.e.) when loaded you must be very quick in case of an engine out in climb after takeoff. If you aren’t, you’ll stall immediately. That’s why it was taken out of the POH.
EuroFlyer wrote:
Yes you can do it, but be aware that in case of a backward CG (i.e.) when loaded you must be very quick in case of an engine out in climb after takeoff. If you aren’t, you’ll stall immediately. That’s why it was taken out of the POH.
It is true that if you are doing a maximum performance short field climb and experience a power loss, you will need to lower the pitch about 15+ degrees to avoid a stall. However, aft loading is better than forward loading because stall speed is decreased with the aft loading. Stall is not immediate, but loss of energy is rapid. The later Bonanza’s have an approach flap detent setting near 15 degrees and it is in the POH. Earlier aircraft have a continuous position flap switch, with up, down, and stop positions and had a 20 degree and 10 degree flap lines painted on the leading edge of the LH flap that the pilot could use to set the flaps. Over the years, most of these were lost when the aircraft was repainted. In 1966, a dial was added in the cockpit that displayed flap position with a meter and marks at 10 and 20 degrees.
So, I believe that the main reason for removing the flaps from the POH had more to do with the lack of a detent than a lack of utility. It also probably was influenced by the legal department. I teach to use the aileron deflection to set the flap position to approximately 20 degrees as a cross check on the flap extension for a short field takeoff. There is a lot of great information included in the Owners Manual which predated the POH. In particular, it includes Vy and Vx speeds for various configurations,whereas the POH only includes the information for the clean configuration. Don’t try a go around at the POH published Vy with the gear and flaps down, you will get anemic or no climb, particularly on a hot day. Vy is 90 Kts in the clean configuration in the POH, but with gear and flaps down, the owners manual shows 60 Kts. Interestingly, the POH lists 61 Kts as the Balked Landing speed.
Thanks for that information – thorough as always :) Any idea where I could get one of these older owners manuals ?
EuroFlyer wrote:
Any idea where I could get one of these older owners manuals ?
Over the years, I have accumulated a library of most of them by purchasing them on Ebay. If you have interest in one particular model, I can scan some of the relevant pages and email to you. PM me.
I have owned my V35A for more than 39 years and am a BPPP instructor. You can join the ABS and download any of the POH, the Owners Manuals are harder to come by. You can also take the BPPP on line ground school, which is included for free to members and ABS also has a one month free membership.
I am member of both the ABS and the EBS and also a beechtalk member. I own an F33A since 2016 and I’m heavily in love ;)
Here is a short video of myself departing Pattonville (EDTQ) in the Deb. A friend of mine did the filming. Just gotta love that sound…
NCYankee wrote:
and had a 20 degree and 10 degree flap lines painted on the leading edge of the LH flap that the pilot could use to set the flaps.
Mines are still on the LH flap. I have owned mine for 14 years and like you say got the owners manuals and POH from the likes of ABS and other owners/web. My view is that it is a ’’feel’’ aeroplane, airframe specific, but flown by the numbers the type will serve you very well. It took me a while to get into the performance capability but once you understand what they can carry, and do and perform, it is then very easy to see why EuroFlyer is heavily in love. Mines has become like a family heirloom. Had it for sale last year was going to upgrade to a newer V35B but in the end decided that I will stick with her and may never sell it. 
… and a few impressions from inside the cockpit whilst in flight:
I can’t say anything about the Cirrus, but we had an S-35 Bonanza in our flying club in Houston and I used to fly it into grass fields frequently (the Soaring Club of Houston in particular, which was just graded cow pasture). It was a reasonable short field performer and the flaps on the Bonanza/Debonair are very effective.
