An abbreviated flight plan does not get distributed to all the ATS on your route. It only goes on the controller’s strip. As far as I am concerned, at night you need to file a full flight plan covering even the portions of the flight which transit uncontrolled airspace.
Not strictly correct; if you file an IFR enroute FP on the radio, e.g. what is called a “popup IFR clearance” the ATCO has to create a “fragment” of a FP which goes into the ATC system. This isn’t the one which is used to e.g. cross a piece of Class D 10nm long and which goes only on the strip.
Reportedly, the UK didn’t buy the software module which some mainland countries have and which facilitates easy generation of these IFR fragments, and this is one reason it is almost impossible to get a popup clearance into UK Class A (for any distance).
I’ve had flights where the FP was mysteriously lost, and ended up flying on a “popup” all the way from the Alps to Shoreham, with ATC knocking up the route ahead as I went.
Aviathor wrote:
An abbreviated flight plan does not get distributed to all the ATS on your route. It only goes on the controller’s strip. As far as I am concerned, at night you need to file a full flight plan covering even the portions of the flight which transit uncontrolled airspace.
According to SERA an abbreviated flight plan (although that particular term isn’t used) is intended only for situations where a flight plan is needed for a short part of the flight, e.g. to transit some controlled airspace. If a flight plan is needed for more than that, you’re expected to file a full flight plan.
Dimme – maybe its me, but i sense you are being obtuse.
The point i am making is that during the day you simply book out, i am going from x to y. In the uk you may do exactly the same at night for flights ocas. We are talking strictly ocas vfr as that was the original question.
If you fly england to france you file a flight plan using one of the available flight planning systems – its still ocas, still vfr. It takes a bit longer, you may give more information and most people would consider this a formal flight plan.
You may well consider booking out as formal as it gets but it doesnt alter the fact that there are different systems in operation which was the simple point i sort to make.
Peter is correct with regards ifr but that isnt the discussion, this is vfr ocas uk airspace in which the caa interpret sera as booking out as complying with a fp having been filed.
I think that is different from much of the rest of europe?
Peter wrote:
Not strictly correct; if you file an IFR enroute FP on the radio
This is about VFR night
Is it?
Fuji_Abound wrote:
The point i am making is that during the day you simply book out
This reminded me of another discussion about “booking out”.
The UK AIP says:
An Abbreviated Flight Plan fulfils the historical requirement for ‘Booking Out’ which is no longer applicable
Whatever.
With apologies for the frustration I rather thought we had got past the usual one liners on EuroGa. What happened to having a nice discussion?
I may well be wrong Aviathor, but my understanding is that in the UK it is ok to file a fp with the tower for a night flight between x and y (ocas, night VFR). If it isnt then I have learnt some more, and I thank you. If it is still fine, then I think that is different from most of Europe where it is on to the computer and the tower will be telling you we dont have a flight plan if you havent filed. (Mainly because with SOME exceptions I understood Europe does not recognise night VFR, so you would file an IFR flight plan). Thats the point, nothing more. I may well be wrong and we can also discuss what is “formal” and what is not by all means, but my experience is that when pilots ask for a class D transit airborne, or tell the tower they are going from x to y they dont see that as a “formal” flight plan, even though of course I accept that it is.
Indeed; also you could do an IFR flight between the Channel Islands (day or night) on the IMC Rating. Those are not done on Eurocontrol-filed flight plans. You call up the tower and tell them it’s an IFR departure.
Fuji_Abound wrote:
I may well be wrong Aviathor, but my understanding is that in the UK it is ok to file a fp with the tower for a night flight between x and y (ocas, night VFR).
An abbreviated FPL filed with TWR at your departure airfield only concerns the portion of the flight within the tower’s airspace, ie. CTR. No other ATS unit will receive it.
The UK AIP defines bbreviated FPL as:
(c) Abbreviated Flight Plans – the limited information required to obtain a clearance for a portion of flight, filed either by telephone prior to take-off or by radiotelephony (RTF) when airborne
The UK AIP also says:
1.3.3 A flight plan shall be submitted before departure to an air traffic services reporting office or, during flight, transmitted to the appropriate air traffic services unit or air-ground control radio station unless arrangements have been made for the submission of repetitive flight plans.
That allows you to AFIL (air file). But AFIL is not an abbreviated flight plan.
And the UK AIP says that a FPL is required for
(f) any flight planned to operate at night if leaving the vicinity of an aerodrome.
As far as I understand it, for VFR night outside of the aerodrome circuit, a full flight plan must be filed and distributed (even in the UK), which means filing before the flight, or AFIL.
I also note:
1.4.1 An Abbreviated Flight Plan is the limited information required to obtain a clearance for a portion of flight, filed either by telephone prior to take-off or by radiotelephony (RTF) when airborne. This might apply in the case of a required clearance to fly in a Control Zone (CTR) or crossing an Airway. No flight plan form is submitted and the destination aerodrome will not be informed.
1.4.2 In the case of a departure from an aerodrome within a CTR an Abbreviated FPL may be sufficient to obtain clearance to depart the aerodrome and route to the appropriate CTR/CTA boundary. However, some aerodromes require aircraft to follow designated noise preferential routes which may be identified as Standard Departure Routes (SDRs) depending on the outbound track of the flight.
1.4.3 A Full flight plan must be filed if the pilot requires the destination aerodrome to be notified of the flight.
Fuji_Abound wrote:
(Mainly because with SOME exceptions I understood Europe does not recognise night VFR, so you would file an IFR flight plan)
It’s the other way around. The only country I know of that does not allow night VFR is NL.
