The GTN650 is marginally better than the GNS430W
I beg to differ. Usability wise, the 650 is decades ahead of the 430W. No more twiddling of the wrong knob, properly shaded map, zooming is near instantaneous and doesn’t take ages to render, flight plan entering is no hassle at all unlike the 430W.
GPSS is very good value for money
What for? Or rather good value for the pilot/owner or the avionics shop?
99% of Eurocontrol IFR IMO is climb straight ahead to MRVA, then a few radar vectors to get you out of the way of the big boys, then own navigation direct to destination, then a few radar vectors to set you up on an intersecting course to the ILS, then down the ILS. What good does GPSS do to you in this scenario?
For sure the GTN is much user friendly then the GNS. The screen of the GTN-650 can be quite small with all buttons. Therefore it is a good idea for a potential buyer to check out the Garmin GTN simulator, to see if does what one expects.
On the GPSS, the additional cost are relative low and many of my customers like the GPSS option and would not want to miss it, just like NCYankee idicates.
For my personal point of view it doesn’t make sense selling equipment that people don’t want. I rather have customers coming back because they are happy with advise, service and installation they got.
Me: “GPSS is very good value for money”
What for? Or rather good value for the pilot/owner or the avionics shop?
Certainly not for the avionics shop, there is virtually no money to be made by them. Here in the US, I would expect an invoice between $2500 and $3500.
Have you ever flown with roll steering?
Have you ever flown with roll steering?
Yes, with G1000/GFC700. Ok, it doesn’t use the emulated heading bug kludge a roll steering converter uses.
Here in the US, I would expect an invoice between $2500 and $3500.
So that means in Europe it’s probably more like 5000$. If you suffer from not knowing where to spend your money, then why not install a roll steering converter. But even in this case I’d probably put that 5000$ into the bank, so at the current interest rates in about 150 years you’ll be able to buy a proper autopilot that has envelope protection, which is IMO a lot more useful than roll steering.
Here in Europe one has little real operational need for super accurate lateral tracking.
There are various initiatives at Eurocontrol to bring in more accurate stuff (RNAV1 etc) but frankly an ultralight with a camping shop GPS can fly them to the required accuracy (illegally) and more seriously a KLN94 driving any analog autopilot can also fly them to the required accuracy (equally illegally).
And the KLN94 will fly a GPS/LNAV approach accurately enough to place you bang in the middle of the runway. It just won’t do LPV…
IFR GA, flying in the mid levels (say FL100-200), is flying in airspace which is virtually devoid of traffic and ATC are mostly pretty relaxed about it. There is the occassional closer proximity situation in terminal areas but in most cases the Eurocontrol routes take you away from them. I have flown about 13hrs Eurocontrol IFR in the last 7 days and would happily give you 20 quid for every target showing on TCAS within 3nm radius and 3000ft vertically.
So most of the seriously expensive equipment requirements are driven by regulatory stipulations (which are not based on any actual need – it’s mainly job creation since GPS caused the bottom to drop out of the nav market) and not on operational need.
What I would consider worthwhile is keypad entry of waypoints and airway names, and possibly some sort of electronic flight plan transfer from flight planning software directly into the GPS (which does exist in the Garmin world now but in an extremely clumsy form which few people bother with). Also LPV, and PRNAV/RNAV1 need to be done if spending any real money. The rest is “just nice”.
I agree with NCYankee’s view of the 750 v. the 650 but a 750, installed by a “reputable” UK shop, will cost about GBP 25k (USD 38k) by the time it is all done in a real aircraft with the usual pile of legacy issues.
I would like Roll Steering…..I have the KCS55 system with KAP 150 and a 430W…..does anyone have any experience of the DAC GDC31?
@AntonyQ, Be sure to check out the Aspen EFD1000PRO as well. Although more expensive, this will give you more features, like second set of indicators, moving map on the HSI, and synthetic vision option. Aspen pricing is quite competitive.
I agree with NCYankee — GPSS/roll steering is a major benefit. It’s one of the most useful features to have in my view. This whole “overshoot and correct” or “turn the needle at the right moment” business is cumbersome. Clearly GPSS is a comfort feature but one of the smarter ways to spend money IMO.
installed by a “reputable” UK shop, will cost about GBP 25k (USD 38k) by the time it is all done in a real aircraft with the usual pile of legacy issues.
That seems a lot me, are you sure?
A certified installation (for an aircraft which is one the STC and replaces a current NAV/COM/GPS) could be done for about 18-22K Euro for a GTN750 and 10-13K Euro for a GTN650.
10-13K Euro for a GTN650
Just for the work/install or does that include the GTN650? If the latter, you must work for free, if the former, it’s on the expensive side…
