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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

It is quite astonishing that this was put in writing though.

Indeed.

Reportedly GA activity is down, GPS usage is increasing, yet reported infringements are increasing and perceived as a life threatening problem. I’d like to know how their logic flows.

He says that GA activity is constant, which is an interesting bit of info (if true; I have never seen any evidence of such data having been published although the CAA does have data on hours from medical etc applications), and the rest is nonsense.

Infringements with loss of separation are actually going down steadily.

More likely, because this new CAA policy is penetrating into the ATC machine and they are getting fed up with writing up the reports. So they are getting more proactive.

And we see exactly this when flying. On a recent flight EGKA GWC CPT… I obviously called up Farnborough ASAP out of EGKA and told them my route. However around GWC they evidently got a panicky call from Solent because the track EGKA-GWC heads towards SAM. Instead of telling Solent I was turning at GWC towards CPT, they transferred me to Solent for a “service”. Well, obviously Solent wanted to watch me, notwithstanding that they enthusiastically busted 2 people for touching the edge of their CAS recently (both 1st time offenders and got Gasco so both will have licenses pulled if they do another within 2 years). They had no idea of my route, so I told them. They handed me back over to Farnborough pretty quickly. So ATC, everywhere according to reports, are getting really pro-active, and since there is no comeback on them (unless there is a loss of sep) it must be because they don’t want to waste time writing reports, and want to avoid total screwups where sep is lost.

What do you mean by FMC use?

FMC is the latest trendy acronym for a listening squawk.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Fuji_Abound wrote:

What do you mean by FMC use?

Frequency Monitoring Code, aka listening squawk.

If you’re mode-S, then the ATCO working the sector, seeing you are on the FMC, can call you by your callsign if he sees some kind of a problem. It’s saved some people from making inadvertent busts. It’s probably less useful if you have only mode-A or C.

Last Edited by alioth at 13 Nov 14:42
Andreas IOM

alioth wrote:

It’s saved some people from making inadvertent busts.

And it can prevent a minor bust turning into a loss of separation.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Since this is “around Europe” and not just UK, a 2 grosze from my back yard. FIS considered FMC use, but decided that the mode-s response containing the call sign is enough. They went as far as to say something to the effect of “if you’re mode-s you don’t need to bother checking in, we have your back and will call you if needed”. And they do.

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

Dont be fooled into thinking FMC or a basic service in the UK being provided, will assist you .

They may prevent some people making inadvertant busts but some units are quite happy to see you trip up whilst providing a service.

The more they bust the more they justify more controlled airspace and their outer limits grow.

The double speak of the civil service response provided to Peter bears no relation to real world experience in the GA sector of the UK and typifies a “political” response which justifies the cynicism of many on this forum

EGBM, United Kingdom

Dont be fooled into thinking FMC or a basic service in the UK being provided, will assist you .

Of course it will not All the time you are OCAS they are unlikely to call you, and once you touch CAS it is an MOR and you are busted, and if there is Gasco capacity you will usually get Gasco the 1st time.

I can see an official Loss of Separation is less likely, with a listening squawk, simply because they can call you faster. But still very likely if you do it in the “wrong place”, due to the 5000ft/5nm add-on. Almost anywhere in the LTMA for example, if you add 5k vertically, there is likely to be a jet there at some (fairly likely) moment. That’s because the 5k add-on is totally ridiculous, not because the pilot was a d1ckhead.

The double speak of the civil service response provided

Indeed; I found that response utterly mind boggling. It’s somebody from a different universe.

Unfortunately the response is real, from one of the policy drivers, so we need to take it seriously and try to work out what it may mean.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

tmo wrote:

“if you’re mode-s you don’t need to bother checking in, we have your back and will call you if needed”

That’s how FMC works in the UK. You don’t speak unless spoken to.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

You don’t speak unless spoken to

Reminds me when I was doing an internship with a tough boss

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Is there any data to link listening squawk to reduced separation losses? Or is it just a bit of a long stretch. Very possibly, maybe, with the wind in the right direction it could be due to luckier pilots, or gps.

@Timothy – yes, I know; in Poland, you don’t even set a FMC, just keep 7000 (I have to ask them about 2000) and mode-s your callsign. I specifically asked one of the FIS guys why no FMCs (based on you mentioning them here as a good practice, with which I agree) when we were discussing needless chatter on a congested frequency, and he said “mode-s is enough”.

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland
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