I watched the full video posted by @Peter, and consider it propaganda. Even if true, the blame would not be on the Chinese Government. I recall the escape of smallpox from a UK laboratory. Nobody blamed the Conservative/Labour Government, whichever was in power at the time. Fortunately the outbreak was quickly stopped.
I didn’t watch much of the later video saying the Chinese are covering up more cases.
I won’t hold Boris Johnson responsible for the current mess – he wasn’t in power when the systems were set up over many decades – IF he manages to get things working.
At present the people at greatest risk, without masks, are the small shop workers. I see the first death of one in today’s news.
Not all patients who end up in hospital will end up on a ventilator.
OK, yes, that clearly explains it. A lot of people just get a mask, or even a cannula.
I expect a lot of it depends whom you try to ventilate in the first place.
Do you mean the age/health profile of the subjects?
I watched the full video posted by @Peter, and consider it propaganda.
Possibly, but who would benefit? I don’t think the video makes any new claims as regards the origin of the virus.
It does surprise me that the Chinese declared only ~3k, given how fast that number was surpassed by far smaller and far less densely population countries in Europe.
It doesn’t matter now in the practical sense.
At present the people at greatest risk, without masks, are the small shop workers
I agree. I work above a petrol station shop and was amazed at how little (nothing) was done. Even the M&S petrol station shops have no protection, although they do make the people queing up stand 2m apart. The shop below me did mock up a perspex shield with some duct tape, a few days ago.
The comparison between the chinese government and democratic government structures is not really valid.
The army swears loyalty to the party no the country.
Massive state control. I’ve not watched that video but did watch some of the motorcycling videos with him and the south african chap who both lived in china at the time.
aart wrote:
Thanks Medewok and Silvaire, I feel less confined now. In any event, in an attempt to couple this topic to aviation, I fail to understand how pilots can be dog lovers. I mean the word ‘aircraft’ and ‘dog’ almost go as well together as ‘cat’ and ‘dog’, right? In contrast, consider all these magnificent aircraft like the Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat etc!
Cats. Wow. I always liked you @aart but … cats??
Maoraigh wrote:
I watched the full video posted by @Peter, and consider it propaganda. Even if true, the blame would not be on the Chinese Government. I recall the escape of smallpox from a UK laboratory. Nobody blamed the Conservative/Labour Government, whichever was in power at the time. Fortunately the outbreak was quickly stopped.
I didn’t watch much of the later video saying the Chinese are covering up more cases.
I won’t hold Boris Johnson responsible for the current mess – he wasn’t in power when the systems were set up over many decades – IF he manages to get things working.
At present the people at greatest risk, without masks, are the small shop workers. I see the first death of one in today’s news.
Retribution and blame is always pointless (Germany after the Frist World World), whereas learning the lessons of history is vital to our success.
It seems there is substantial evidence that China did not make disclosure as soon as they could. Whether it be China, or any other country, this can never happen again. whether they did or didnt is now irrelevant.
The answer is every country that wishes must sign up to a new agreement that they undertake to make immediate disclosure should this occur again (as it will) and the WHO will send in independent inspectors (the same principle as weapons of mass destruction). Any country can dissent, but the reprecussions would be immediate and severe – no flights can land from that country, borders sealed, ships not permitted to enter ports. I doubt many countries would not agree to sign up and a period of isolation / severe embargos would bring them to account. You can imagine the US, Europe the UK for starters would be up for that.
Of course, the risk is they become even more secretive, but even in China these things have a habit of finding a way out. Any suspicion that disclosure hadnt been made, and the consequences would be immediate and severe. There would be no vote blocking from the UN. China and there allies could be all means opt out if they wished, but we would have to enforce the immediate closure of borders, grounding of aircraft etc.
I sense the mood in America will take us in the direction in due course. I may be mistaken, but I dont see America allowing themselves to be blindsided in this way again – it is not in their nature as the dominant power.
It is harsh, but if the majority of countries signed up, given the current mood, I expect it could be enforced. Unlike most similiar situations there are few reasonable grounds for objecting other than the usual “meddling in internal affairs” which I suspect would no loger cut the mustard, and to which the answer would be – in which case you get on with your internal affairs in isolation, until everyone esle is satisfied it is under control or not an issue.
It would apply not just to China, but to every country, and so I seek no retribution over China – whether they made mistakes or not is another matter, which doubtless will also be explored from those who see things differently.
Those figures from the NHS, and the crass failure of Public Health England to prepare in January (when they knew from Exercise Cygnus that they would be overwhelmed) are not at all surprising. The British National Health Service is a socialist command economy, a failed state within a state, with all the chaos, confusion, corporate ineptitude, cover-ups, and corruption that implies. It reminds me of Algeria in the Boumediene days: we could buy all of the left hand Renault 6 driveshafts we needed to keep our cars running around El Hadjar steelworks but the wretched official who ordered spare parts from France didn’t realise that the right hand shaft was a different part. Not his fault, he was only in that job because of who he was, not because he knew how to do it.
Ten years ago I spent a couple of weeks in Wrexham general hospital with pneumonia. Twenty percent of the nurses were extraordinary; they did 80% of the work. Still, the place was filthy – when I was feeling a bit better but couldn’t sleep for everyone coughing I spent some happy hours killing silverfish and roaches with slipper and torch. There was one operational loo and no bath for a ward of 30+. There were no paper handkerchiefs on the ward – one had to stagger out and buy them from the shop in the foyer.
Perchance our beloved NHS has improved since then, but I doubt it.
The answer is every country that wishes must sign up to a new agreement that they undertake to make immediate disclosure should this occur again (as it will) and the WHO will send in independent inspectors (the same principle as weapons of mass destruction). Any country can dissent, but the reprecussions would be immediate and severe – no flights can land from that country, borders sealed, ships not permitted to enter ports. I doubt many countries would not agree to sign up and a period of isolation / severe embargos would bring them to account. You can imagine the US, Europe the UK for starters would be up for that.
I agree. This “exercise” will be extraordinarily expensive and similar to the 1930s depression. It will become the biggest lesson in our lifetimes.
What will be equally interesting is what happens to China. Greed always wins in the end so “big business” (e.g. Apple) will continue to build their stuff at Foxconn etc, because they can manage the risks by having loads of their own people based there. It is the smaller customers who buy say 10k or 100k or something. They will consider reducing the strategic exposure to another “China adventure with weird animals” by building back home and using China for simple small and dirt cheap components only. That’s what I still do, having had a fair few nasty surprises with companies vanishing, and if I buy say 5k cables which last 5 years, it doesn’t matter of there is a meltdown, other than in the final few months of the 5 years.
The British National Health Service is a socialist command economy, a failed state within a state, with all the chaos, confusion, corporate ineptitude, cover-ups, and corruption that implies.
I think that’s obvious within the first few sentences uttered by any “NHS manager” who appears on TV. The job attracts certain types like a magnet. There was a series on the TV a few years ago when some “corporate fixer” went around the NHS and basically just tore his hair out.
And I am sure it is the same in every other country in Europe – looking at PMs and emails I get about it.
Perchance our beloved NHS has improved since then, but I doubt it.
It is a lot cleaner 
But I would still go private at any opportunity.
Jacko – I have a little story. I had to take someone to hospital after a bad fall. They were sent home, there is nothing wrong, go rest. The next day they were in excrutiating pain, and were told take pain killers, thats normal come back for your appointment in 3 weeks. We were back in the hospital the next day, broken angle, brocken shoulder, all requiring pins. The only reason we got there was me insisting on speaking to a Consultant (which was very hard work) and ulitmately the threat of legal action. Huge aplogies all around and a Registrar beside himself. Three weeks later and back for a check up – and you couldnt make it up. As with most bone work patient barely able to walk. First to reception, the furthest point from the car park, then to x-ray, the other end of the hospital, then back to reception. I could go on. For anyone with any commercial experience the sheer waste of time and ineptitude was breath taking. I know, I know, it is one story and this is the way such accounts are always dismissed – it is the stock answer to which there is litte “counter attack”. The trouble is, when I have heard so many similar stories over the last year from a wide number of contacts I have, you think once is bad luck, twice suspicous and three times, there is a problem. It is a shambles, that is the truth of the matter, and being told the doctors and the nurses are wonderful is not the answer. They are, there are some extraordinarily talented and dedicated people, but they dont make the health service into an efficient business which with the numbers these days, it must be. How you change that is the problem, but it doesnt change the fact it is a complete shambles, and we desperately need to recognise that. Potentially if any good comes from the present disaster this might be it as it has exposed so many of the shortcomings. A little honestry would not now go amiss either – but now I am dreaming.
While I am on my hobby horse the other comment I often hear is we should be grateful – its free. I appreciate not everyone understands how taxes work – but it isnt free! It may be reasonably good value for what we spend on it – but it is a long way short of being free.
I dont take such a harsh view but I was talking to a close friend today – his attitude was as good and as dedicated as so many of the medcial staff are – why are we clapping, they chose the job, they know what might be involved and in the case of some are very well paid. As I say, I rather think these are exceptional circumstances and due to the shortcomings, which of course should not exist, many are placing themselves at personal risk. They deserve a clap in my view.
However – what about our rubbish collectors. They still turn up every day, potentially come into contact with everyone’s bins, rubbish and all that is involved – where is a clap for them?
There is a crate of beer going out for mine – or maybe they would prefer wine.
