So obviously none of these people took it seriously and the airliner didn’t take any measure to promote such simple stuff as cleaning the hands before eating.
If you sit in a cafe here in the UK and watch people going in and out of the toilet, you see the same. Nobody cares. And it’s always been like that. Mens’ toilets (I wouldn’t know about womens’ ones 
) tend to be totally disgusting anyway so anyone sensible will have developed a method to avoid touching anything with one’s hands.
At work and at home we have implemented some fairly strict measures. UV+ozone steriliser for £40 and put everything that’s been “out and about” in there, including the mail.
Re Medewok’s question a few days back, I came across the following here
What are the opinions on airports getting shut down, so a GA pilot might get stranded?
If one is worrying about the post, it would almost certainly be effective to put it in the oven before opening it. This article about a similar virus gives some suggestions about how long and at what temperature. . I am talking outside my competence here, so read, search and make your own judgements.
I make this suggestion because UV and ozone sterilisers will be a limited commodity and not everyone will be able to get them. Sufficient time in the oven might also sterilise whatever is in the packets. I have come across computer keyboards that were sterilised with UV light and I thought this was quite a good idea as they’re fiddly to clean with a cloth and the ones covered in a thick membrane are horrible to type on.
I’m not sure what to make of the association between existing conditions and mortality. People with cancer will probably be triaged away from aggressive treatment even if the cancer is not immediately a danger to them. Older people collect diseases, so there will be an association between having a diagnosis and frailty. My feeling is that I would rather approach the virus with a diagnosis of hypertension (a very common diagnosis) than COPD, for example, even though hypertension seems to be more associated with mortality. But I may be wrong.
As much as I support limiting the rate of spread, and my heart truly goes out to anyone who becomes very ill, I am not sure whether taking extreme long term personal measures is the answer. I believe there is some evidence that limiting the exposure of our immune system to bacteria and viruses is not a good thing (obvioulsy it is to anything especially dangerous like Ebola, etc, I dont dispute). The reality is eventually I suspect everyone will be exposed to this virus – it is just a matter of time. Also eventually herd immunity will be the best line of defence, including if and when a vaccine become available which will work in the same way. We do not yet know whether this virus will behave like seasonal flue, and therefore whether immunity will be short or long lived. This will also be a significant factor.
I suspect preventing the health services becoming overwhelmed is the key, not the eventual outcome.
Any country that proves able to effectively and substantially slow down the rate of spread is the most likely not to have its health services overwhelmed and its population fair the best, all other factors aside. Delaying untill the weatehr warms might just help a great deal as well, although the evidence seems to suggest this virus may not be as vulnerable to warmer weather as seasonal flue – unless it has been listening to Trump, of course.
I have come across computer keyboards that were sterilised with UV light and I thought this was quite a good idea as they’re fiddly to clean with a cloth and the ones covered in a thick membrane are horrible to type on.
The virtual impossibility of maintaining a sterile environment at home or the office is exactly why it is much better to have the simple rule of washing hands upon entry. Everybody can understand that, and then they can touch what they like. Well, not the secretaries
I believe there is some evidence that limiting the exposure of our immune system to bacteria and viruses is not a good thing
IMHO there is a good case for avoiding this thing totally if one can, because of the potential for significant lung damage. This is well worth a read.
UV and ozone sterilisers will be a limited commodity and not everyone will be able to get them
Indeed, once large numbers of people discover this route…
I have also bought 25W UV lamps (really poweful) for constructing a DIY steriliser in a cardboard box. Unfortunately all big lamps I found were 115V (most UV stuff on Ebay etc is toy stuff, 3W and such) so I bought some transformers also. Need to watch the eyes when using this, obviously.
Interesting data, kwlf
The results showed that SARS coronavirus in the testing condition could survive in serum, 1:20 diluted sputum and feces for at least 96 h, whereas it could remain alive in urine for at least 72 h with a low level of infectivity. The survival abilities on the surfaces of eight different materials and in water were quite comparable, revealing reduction of infectivity after 72 to 96 h exposure. Viruses stayed stable at 4 degrees C, at room temperature (20 degrees C) and at 37 degrees C for at least 2 h without remarkable change in the infectious ability in cells, but were converted to be non-infectious after 90-, 60- and 30-min exposure at 56 degrees C, at 67 degrees C and at 75 degrees C, respectively. Irradiation of UV for 60 min on the virus in culture medium resulted in the destruction of viral infectivity at an undetectable level.
I am really surprised it takes an hour at +60C. That is amazing. As is 60 mins of UV. What would be interesting is ozone, because that is what really gets everywhere in a UV steriliser. It is routinely used in swimming pools and it supposedly kills everything during the passage of the water through the pipe between the ozone generator and the pool, which is probably tens of seconds.
The sheer idiocy of some (many) people was demonstrated just now. I work above a shop and somebody just bought their entire stock of toilet rolls. Why the **** did they sell it to him?
My travels for business have been stopped except for essential trips, so I have to work from home. The company is also facing huge increases in tariffs for freight from Italy where we have two production sites in the south – a shipment from there to (e.g.) France has increased by around 40% so the net result will be an increase of prices to our customers.
What it will also do is lead to a bubble in demand for certain products – hand sanitiser, for example, or perhaps toilet paper etc, when I see the fighting in the stores – but in a month or three, the demand will be zero and those companies will shut their lines.
Snoopy wrote:
carmakers stopped production
Actually they haven’t, yet, quite the opposite. They’re concerned about loosing their production lines later on, and their level of stock is extremely low (also coming from changeover to new models for e.g. Peugeot), so they’re maintaining production to restock. What they will do in a couple of months’ time, especially in France where workers won’t complain about an extra couple of weeks off bridging the May bank holidays, is however rather certain.
They’ve just closed all schools, universities and childcare facilities in Ireland until at least 29 March.
All cultural institutions, museums etc to close.
Saying all outdoor gatherings of 500 or more and indoor gatherings of 100 or more should be cancelled.
Advising to work from home if possible.
Shops, cafes, restaurants and public transport all to stay open.
Snoopy wrote:
Are you personally affected?
I am mid business acquisition which I have been working on for some time. I have pressed pause for the moment. Thankfully I had not engaged lawyers and accountants as yet, however I have spent some money on fund providers.
My main business is holding up (Healthcare provision) but for how long?
Bit of a global mess we are in..
Pretty much the same in Poland – schools closed for two weeks, most gatherings self-cancelled anyway, work from home, etc, etc.
Jujupilote wrote:
As much as I admire the US way of life, I can’t understand your reaction Silvaire. MD is right, we should all be very cautious. I wish France was under lockdown too
I didn’t say not to be individually cautious, I said a couple of other things: (1) that governmental over reaction will kill the economy and create a worse situation than it attempts to solve and (2) that individuals especially including those who are vulnerable should be rational, look out for the own interests, but not react in irrational fear.
Risk management is part of life, probably the part that I find most interesting, truth be told. I’ve ridden motorcycles hundreds of thousands of miles since 1974 and never been injured on a motorcycle, ever… while listening to endless people saying I should be in a car. Now it’s amusing to consider that some of those people are apparently scared of catching a virus in their own car.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for security generally get neither.
