What is also absolutely clear is that – here in the UK and probably most other places – there is poor compliance with movement and “crowding” restrictions, this time around.
It’s a good Q to wonder what it will take to get people to change their behaviour. I reckon, hospitals turning people away and Italian-type scenes appearing on TV.
This is all over this morning’s news but nobody is willing to say it. At the same time they are carrying banal interviews with thick people saying “we are entitled to see our friends at xmas” – as if the virus cares about the calendar.
The FFP3 masks have arrived. They have a very good seal – much better than the N95 ones – and have adjustable straps.
Peter wrote:
What is also absolutely clear is that – here in the UK and probably most other places – there is almost no compliance with movement and “crowding” restrictions, this time around.It’s a good Q to wonder what it will take to get people to change their behaviour. I reckon, hospitals turning people away and Italian-type scenes appearing on TV.
I fully agree, Peter. The problem is, the delay between positive test and ICU admission is about two weeks. So if “Italian-type scenes” appear on TV and that finally leads to people changing their behaviour, then it will still get much worse for at least two weeks.
Curiously, the critics of a second lockdown are mostly right that it is unnecessary. Or, more precisely, would have been unnecessary if the population at large continued to behave the way they did in summer. Of course, the weather is less suited for meetings or activities outside now, but I think that is an insufficient excuse. We had this disease well under control in June, July and now we, the people, blew it…that is not government’s fault (but suggesting everything was nearly back to normal was…)
Peter wrote:
I am really quite sure that masks are effective.
I didnt say they cannot be effective or medical staff wouldnt use them. I said
:skydriller wrote:
Not convinced that using a manky piece of cloth stuffed in your back pocket is the magic shield that many think it is
The problem I have with them is that the vast majority of wearers here think it makes them invincible, and dont do anything else other than wear their bit of cloth – the same bit of cloth I might add – and play with it on and off their face all day, no cleansing or distancing involved.
If everyone did the clean hands – put on mask – dont touch it – take it off – clean hands – and changed the mask after 20mins of use with the same procedure, and of course wore them properly while additionally trying to maintain social distancing, I would feel differently – but this isnt what I see happening.
Regards, SD..
Yes; I think it depends on the scenario.
If one lives mostly in the countryside, then the mask gets worn for visiting the local shop – because you have to. If there is almost nobody else there, mask sterilisation is probably not a big issue.
Otherwise, the mask may not be doing a lot of good…
Most people are clueless re procedures. Watch what happens at petrol stations, with almost everyone picking up the nozzle with their bare hand, entering the PIN number the same way, etc.
Mask usage criticism is valid however it misses out on the point that the most effective spread vector is aerosolisation, not touch. People have caught it riding an elevator previously used by infected people, or via bathroom air ducts. Anything that reduces aerosol spread is good, even a badly used mask. In an open floor office, on a bus, train etc. chances are low to nil you’ll touch the same things as other people do, however an unmasked infected subject in one corner will very effectively contaminate the whole attendance.
While “studies show masks are detrimental in Vietnam”, masks are a common sight across SE Asia, and the other very common sight is very low infection rates, even in places like SK which never did a hard lockdown.
Peter – I think the reason for the poor compliance is the UK’s governments lackadaisical and disjoined respsonse. If the message is unclear, inevitably so is the response.
There are those that say a stiffer nationwide lockdown will result in widespread non compliance. I dont believe this will be so IF the position is made absolutely clear, and is reasonably enforced. In this country most people are compliant IF they know where they stand.
The key is to stay ahead of the virus so the infection does not force our hand, and we are on the verge that it will. A lockdown (and I dont mean a full lockdown) will keep us ahead for another few months enforced nationwide and with a high level of compliance demanded.
IF, and I believe this is an if, we dont get the virus under control now, the winter proper will be a disaster, vaccine or not, but with a vaccine, it will gives us the real possibility of a high degree of normality by next spring, and without it, will at least give us the opportunity to reset the clock going into next year.
I am afraid that even since yesterday I am alarmed and dismayed the Government in the UK is on the precipes of making exactly the same mistakes that were made in the Spring, and appear to have forgotten just how quickly this epidemic can get away from us.
Hodja wrote:
Hodja
29-Oct-20 06:02
142Nice analysis Fuji_abound, I see a similar perspective.
Thank you. It was heartfelt as to where I see we are in the UK and I suspect much of the rest of Europe who at least appear to attempting a jump on the spread of the infection, in some countries.
I am beginning to worry where the leadership is in the UK. These are tough tough decisions, but for that reason even the more important that the responsibility of taking them early and decissively is not missed. My judgement is we are just about done with the experiment of regional lock downs, just maybe the results will supoort the governmen’ts case in the coming few weeks, but the risk would seem to great now if the data does not support their position.
It’s crystal clear: Wearing good masks is better than wearing not so good ones. And wearing them properly is better than wearing them wrongly.
But even a badly worn simple piece of cloth is better than nothing!
The most important thing: It is us to make the difference – every single one of us!
It is the mindset that we accept we are responsible for stoping this pandemic! Therefore we do everything possible ourself rather than always questioning if there is enough scientific proof (mainly by people who have never written a scientific paper by themself and therefore can not even judge what “scientific evidence” is all about) for a specific measure and therefore just do whatever we always liked to do.
It’s always easy to blame politicians for either doing not enough or too much (based on our daily mood). They are, however only fixing a catastrophe that we fail to prevent by our stubborn, selfish and stupid behavior.
As someone pointed out very correctly: Yes, there is a role for politicians when it comes to creating the environment where people are actually enabled to do the right choices and to act wisely (e.g. not forcing them into physical workplaces if not absolutely required…)
Sorry for the rant – but when I see the masses of Covidiots that are still doing fun trips to the remaining places where the virus has not been that strong last week or piling in front of ski lifts, I start to doubt that mankind actually deserves to survive – perhaps it’s better to not enforce washing hands, wearing masks, keeping distance and staying at home and let just Darwin do his job … unfortunately that always hits people who want to do better but can’t.
I tend to agree 
I am beginning to worry where the leadership is in the UK
The UK problem is that “health” is a devolved item and it has been a wonderful opportunity for local politicians to feel important. I am told Germany has the same problem… The result is inevitably a diluted message.
I guess if this was Ebola or some such, more authority would be applied to the problem.
Re masks, all the FFP3 ones I found have an exhaust port. This is obviously “not so great” for CV19 – the main use of these is probably in industrial settings – so one might need to wear some cheap mask over the top of it, and I have seen this in reports from hospitals.
