BeechBaby wrote:
Peter wrote:
But, hey, when posting in the forum on non admin matters, my opinion is worth no more than any other.Precisely and on that note time to leave all you pro vaxxers to yourselves…..see ya!!
Beechbaby – are you opposed to the use of vaccines in this case, and if so I would genuinely be interested to know why? (With apologies if I havent follwed your earlier contributions on this specific aspect before, I do get a little lost who is who, although I do enjoy everyone’s contributions).
LeSving wrote:
Again a term I read about only on EuroGA. Who are these “anti-vaxers” ? Funny how certain people has to make a religion out of everything.
You need to get out more ;)
Vaccine hesitancy on wikipedia talks about the phenomenon.
I like “vaccine deniers” more than “anti vaxxers”, FWIW.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Obviously this is not going to get exploited by anti-vaxxers world wide… and while it was to be expected that something like this would eventually happen, the press reporting now will massively erode the confidence people had…
We just had a similar case in Sweden. An 85 year-old with multiple diseases had heart failure the day after vaccination. Of course, a vaccination puts some slight stress on the body so if someone is in very bad shape to begin with it is possible that it was connected in the sense of the vaccination pushing him over the edge. That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the vaccine, of course.
Perhaps similar to remoaners or “referendum deniers”.
I’ve read a few headlines now saying that the vaccines don’t stop people getting it and passing it on. If this is the case then it’s difficult to see when they’ll remove restrictions.
I’ve read a few headlines now saying that the vaccines don’t stop people getting it and passing it on. If this is the case then it’s difficult to see when they’ll remove restrictions.
This is not correct, though it is often posted by people on facebook and twitter, as a justification for not vaccinating.
The current position is that the data does not yet exist, since the vaccines have not yet been deployed in quantity for long enough to generate the data.
If it were true, it would be the first vaccine ever (afaik) for which this is true – because those who emit most virus are those who have the most virus replicating in them, and the vaccine’s job is precisely to block that. It is possible but it would be a bloody miracle.
The data will take a while to arrive though, due to the policy of vaccinating the care home residents first, then NHS workers, and so on. These are not the general population and especially care home residents don’t do a lot of partying down town. A fair number of people who go into hospital for non-cv19 reasons catch cv19 in the hospital, either from staff or from another (possible asymptomatic) patient, and it will take a lot of time to get data on how this is reducing, and then separate out the two possible sources. It is only when the vaccine gets deployed widely into the general population and especially the parts which get out and about, that data will start to arrive on whether the vaccinated population is spreading it less.
Also remember that you being vaccinated will still make it possible for you to spread it by contact transfer (petrol pump handles etc). It is only aerosol transmission which will (should) reduce or eliminate with vaccination.
I don’t think we’re ever likely to get ‘data’ on whether a vaccine prevents transmission. I just don’t see how you could design an experiment to measure it. Outside of some impossible scenario where you keep infected people in a controlled environment and then mix them with vaccinated people, it’s almost impossible to be sure how any given person became exposed or infected.
What is more likely is it’ll just become obvious that it must be what’s occurring, as we pass a certain proportion of the population vaccinated and the infections rapidly decrease and the hospitalizations/deaths drop off to almost zero.
Take up of the vaccine is much better than was feared, so it seems the anti-vaxxer influence was over-stated. I was never unduly worried because the arguments amount to so little and one is rarely faced with much in the way of scientific education or debating skills when debunking them.
According to this study the two big countries with low acceptance of vaccines is Japan & France now, these don’t even have the organised anti-vaxxers tribes (which are 5% of population)
Japan has even a big worry: they don’t expect national agency approval until March while gouvernement has already order free doses for everybody with more than 70% of population not even willing to take it, this puts Olympics plan into limbo but the country as an outlier can do very well without vaccine as social distanciation is rather natural but I still think things will get very mixed up in Tokyo 2021 games
France in the other hand is far more problematic: there is a rejection of lockdown & social distanciation and low acceptance of the vaccine by population and govt is not even able to secure 10 doses of what the national press present as “US & UK vaccine” 
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31558-0/fulltext
Oxygen shortages in London, Essex, California, New York, Peshawar:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-london-queen-elizabeth-hospital-oxygen-b1779468.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-major-incident-essex-hospitals-b1780167.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-29/oxygen-supply-shortages-bedevil-hospitals-already-overwhelmed-by-covid-19-patients
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/hospitals-facing-oxygen-shortage-amid-coronavirus-crisis/story?id=69915446
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55211459
The Nightingale hospitals in the UK are starting to take patients.
So much for my optimism when we had our 2 week lockdown here, and case numbers seemed to melt away. Try not to be sick in the coming weeks, with COVID or anything else.
kwlf wrote:
Try not to be sick in the coming weeks, with COVID or anything else.
An ‘airport bum’ friend had heart valve surgery here a week ago, no issues although he was surprised that they scheduled it as it wasn’t urgent. Average hospital ICU capacity has increased a little in my area over the last few days… but both that and overall capacity are still more or less 20%.
Local data is available on an individual hospital basis, and the variation between facilities seems to correlate mainly to the demographics of the immediate physical location.
A few days ago you wrote that about half the ICU bed occupancy was with Covid cases, which I would personally find pretty alarming – you are unlikely to have a sudden doubling in all-cause admissions to ICU, but a doubling of COVID cases over the next few weeks sounds plausible enough to me.
Neither would I be too reassured by local demographics – the hospitals will transfer patients wherever there is capacity so ultimately if hospitals start to fill up a few hundred miles away then yours will start to fill up too. And interestingly the regions that have been hit most heavily in the UK this time round have sometimes been the regions that got off most lightly the last time round. Inner city regions always seem to do badly but it seems that rural regions aren’t necessarily spared either.
