Mooney_Driver wrote:
Maybe it is time to reckognize that bars and restaurants are a thing of the past
If that’s the future, then I’ll be coming to Switzerland.
To Dignitas.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
So far less than 10K people have died in Switzerland, the health system was never in any trouble and people weren’t ‘’dying in the streets’’ as you have previously claimed. This is on a 6Mio population, with ski resorts remaining open, most shops (GVA intelligently decided to go their own way for much of the ’’crisis’’) remaining open and no real lockdown.
I never said that people were dying in the streets of Switzerland, that was America where that happened, NY in particular.
IMHO, the way the crisis was handled was wrong from the outset. We needed a total lockdown once the figures skyrocketed last spring and KEEP it in a total lockdown until there are no more new ones. Remember, we almost managed that in the beginning of last Summer. If Switzerland had stood fast, kept the doors shut and not let tens of thousands of immigrant/second generation workers flock home over the Summer (or if they flock not to let them back in), that would have been the end of it.
And if 10k dead are just a statistic to you then there is not a lot I have to say to you. 10k people were loved ones, friends, relatives, fathers, mothers. By now more than a dozen were friends of mine. No, they are not statistics. They are humans murdered by a incapable and corrupt system which failed to protect them.
Now we are in a third wave and personally I do not think it is the last one, as the vaccines do the important job of preventing those vaccined from getting ill, but it does NOT stop the virus being spread. With the illusion that a vaccined population will stop the pandemic now gone, it is time to think about what has to be done to finally conquer it.
To “live with the virus” is not an option, unless you want measures, lockdowns, e.t.c. for the next 20 years. It has to be eradicated totally. And for that we need either to finally get the vaccinations going in numbers AND keep measures until we achieve zero new infections or the whole shebang is going to restart in regular intervals.
Clearly, it is not enough when Switzerland does this (which they won’t) but ALL of Europe has to do it. Countries who are not compliant MUST be shut off from entry to those who are. Europe must be totally isolated from free movement of people until such a time when selectively it will be possible to let people travel again safely. That time is not yet here and I doubt I will fully see free travel restored in our lifetime.
As for restaurants and entertainment, they are important social functions, yes, but we CAN and WILL have to live without them. Not because of those who have passed already, they are beyond help. Because of our children and because of all people we value and even those who don’t. The virus does not make differences between good and evil, but it shows who is willing to stand up to it and who will gladly sacrifice their next of kin, neighbours and others to some unnecessary worldly pleasures.
Look at those countries who have done it, not those who failed. Personally I’d feel much safer in Australia or even in China right now. I have friends there, they have their lifes back since last summer. We will not get it back ever if we can’t wether this crisis.
As for comparing this to the wars of past, it is very clear to me that today Europe does not stand a chance more than it did when defending against enemies of old… today, if we were invaded from somewhere, I am quite sure that Europe would not be up to defending itself but rather sit on their arses in cocktail bars and whatever establishment people deem necessary for survival and wait until the new flag flies, shrug and get on with it…. until they see what a new regime will bring unto them. We are even incapable to fight enemies from within, who are determined to do much more damage to our economy and society than this virus ever can, otherwise why would we be in danger before this year is out to see an ecofascist government established in one of Europes largest countries?
No, Covid has torn the cloths of an emperror who below them makes a very poor figure. It has unmasked a degenerated and lazy society who will not stand up for each other, who will not stand up for their own sake or for the common good of all their fellow menkind. If it fails as a consequence, it has only got itself to blame.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
tens of thousands of immigrant/second generation workers
you wrote earlier that “you have been told that”.
How many of such workers did travel and return to their home countries? And how does that compare to Swiss nationals traveling abroad and returning?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
We are even incapable to fight enemies from within, who are determined to do much more damage to our economy and society than this virus ever can, otherwise why would we be in danger before this year is out to see an ecofascist government established in one of Europes largest countries?
The lockdowns and other ’’fun’’ measures you describe before making this statement seem like fascism to me as well. I’m sorry you have lost loved ones, I truly am, unfortunately your sense of realism or any sense of proportion seems to have died with them. The world is not ending, it’s time to open up again, you may not like it but as with the flu, we are going to have to learn to live with this virus (and potentially many others) as it is not going away…
Cobalt wrote:
you wrote earlier that “you have been told that”.
This was communicated by both the Corona Task force and the health ministry, yes.
Having worked at ZRH airport for over 30 years, I have seen this kind of traffic for decades and that is only the airline traffic. Nowadays, many go by car, as baggage regulations and ticket prices to these destinations are beyond the capabilities of those in question.
Switzerland is at least 1/3rd populated by actual or naturalized foreign workers who go home on a regular base. Plus the rest who go on holidays elsewhere. So tens of thousands is probably very conservative in numbers actually, rather in the hundreds of thousands. And before you think I am racist, well, in a fashion I am one of those as our family is half foreign too and we usually travel 3 times a year to her place.
I personally know people who went home to a place which was stop and go with covid quarantine and who managed to come home just in time to avoid quarantine and got sick some days later. Also it was widely known that people went to party in one of those countries which had forged or messed its numbers and came home sick.
Travel was the curse which brought this whole mess upon us. Like the plague was brought by rats. So why the constant refusal to admit this? Because it’s not PC if we point out that we have a problem with the constant flow of people between countries with various infection rates? Fact is: If Europe had been shut down and all air travel other than cargo grounded totally, I am very sure we’d be in a different position today.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
they are important social functions, yes, but we CAN and WILL have to live without them.
I’d rather pick up the weapons and go for a revolution (mind you I’m French, we like revolution :-) and die defending freedom rather than accepting your proposed depressing future…
There is no need for such a bleak outlook at the future as painted by Mooney_Driver. Once 60-70% of the population have been vaccinated and/or have immunity from prior infection in the last six months, the pandemic threat to the population at large, in the form of health system collapse, is over. Wheter the virus survives or not (my guess is yes it will) is largely meaningless. It will be a background risk among thousands of others, like Influenza, and rarely a problem for immunocompetent people.
Most likely, all future mutations will be less deadly. It is highly likely that SARS-COV2 will be simply a common cold to future generations. New pandemics will appear, possibly more deadly, but there is no reason to fear these now. I reckon we will be better prepared for it by virtue of having experienced one pandemic in our lifetime already.
MedEwok wrote:
Most likely, all future mutations will be less deadly.
Is that an educated guess or what do you know we don’t? So far, most of the mutations were worse? Brazil, British and now South African?
MedEwok wrote:
I reckon we will be better prepared for it by virtue of having experienced one pandemic in our lifetime already.
If you believe that, I congratulate you for your optimism. Seeing however that even 1 year after the outbreak, governments react as daft as on day one, I fail to share it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Is that an educated guess or what do you know we don’t? So far, most of the mutations were worse? Brazil, British and now South African?
It’s based on virology, really. The “goal” of any virus, if we can attribute one to them (it’s something of an anthropomorphism) is to be as wide spreading as possible. This goal is not reached by killing people, which is why highly deadly haemorrhagic fevers like Ebola never spread far: They kill their hosts too quickly to spread.
So natural evolution of virus RNA will always lead to it being less deadly and more contagious. The fact that Covid-variants appeared which are more deadly does not at all discredit this theory. I’m talking about what will happen long term, not within weeks. The more virulent stems will again mutate and ultimately become less deadly. This is simple virology that even a non-specialist like me who only had a few weeks of virology during med school knows.
WingsWaterAndWheels wrote:
your proposed depressing future…
What’s so depressing about having to cook for yourself? We’ve done it for over a year now and am I missing going out? No. I miss meeting friends that way, but frankly, having seen how much money I can actually save during the lockdown, taught me a thing or two. Apart, entertainment is crap anyway around here, good riddance for most of it, particularly if it’s been state sponsored, which I oppose even in peace time. (If entertainment needs to be state sponsored, it’s not good enough to be shown in public and those willing to listen to this garbage can pay for it themselves.)
What about the side effect that if we keep social distancing and masks like in Asia, we might actually do away with the common flu as well? And maybe with some other diseases which keep popping up every now and then? Yea, I know not life threatening in general, but a nuissance still. I can really do without sitting in overstuffed trains with smelly co-travellers, rubbing elbows with total strangers in theaters and for movies, there are DVDs and a nice TV screen at home where popcorn is much cheaper. I know of many families who have greatly profited of stopped soccer games and other sports events and get quality family time together instead. Those who found out in lockdown they need a divorce should be thankful…. anyone who will not pull along is not worth knowing anyway.
