Malibuflyer wrote:
That’s exactly the “let’s find a reason to blame the Chinese” attitude which is completely disconnected from Covid.- The question if the virus “escaped” from a Chinese lab is completely irrelevant for the question, if it spreads between people.
- WHO was informed by Chinese officials as early as Dec 31st of the outbreak of an “Pneumonia of unknown cause” and has been involved in the situation ever since. It took WHO until Jan 10t (almost 2 weeks and therefore longer than the incubation period) to start talking about a “novel corona virus”. First case outside China was recorded at Jan 13th – this is completely independent from any Chinese government the point where WHO knew for sure that virus spreads P2P. It, however, took them another more than 2 weeks to declare an international public health emergency (first stage where travel restrictions should be considered).
It is simply fake news that “WHO told everyone to keep traveling around based on what they were told by the CCP” even if Chienes governement had lied to them (for which there is also no evidence).
- “Dealings with the Chinese government” do therefore have nothing to do with Covid. Off_Field wrote:
Doesnt seem to me to answer any of the points I made.
Forget for a moment – the blame game – it will happen regardless. Think to our routes in aviation. To understand an accident we need to know everything about that accident. Everything. If there were events that could of been prevented that contributed to the accident we MUST accept there will be those that are blamed. We MUST rise above this. It is a hard lesson, but we know it works. We know, time after time, after time. We also know that it requires the best in the field to do the work. We know if it is left to any party with a vested interest, the results risk being tainted – intentional or otherwise. That part is human nature.
.. and if there are no lessons to learn, of any type, the excercise is still of value, because we know we must look elsewhere for a solution.
Of course I appreciate the theory sounds wonderful, but, be in no doubt if we dont seek to apply the theory as far as we can, these events will happen again and again, just as with aircraft and pilots.
I dont care about the blame game, and nor should you, it is a distraction that is being used very successfully by the Chinese.
Fuji_Abound wrote:
Doesnt seem to me to answer any of the points I made.Forget for a moment – the blame game – it will happen regardless. Think to our routes in aviation.
Thanks – I added the clarification that the post was not meant as an answer to you but to the prior post from Off_Field – overlapping posts…
To your point: Great comparison! From aviation we can indeed learn a lot! First and foremost: It is completely useless to discuss potential pilot errors in media or general public. It’s the pilots that should hopefully learn from the mistakes of other pilots. Therefore such events in aviation should be discussed amongst pilots.
Now transferring that to Covid: Unless you work in a lvl 4 facility, for exactly the very same reason it is completely irrelevant for you what happened in the lvl 4 facility in Wuhan or not.
What happens here is only the blame game – because here is nobody who could learn anything from this!
Couple of days later it’s now pretty obvious, that this “2nd wave” in Switzerland was nothing more than 2 days of bad luck which have been dramatized by yellow press.
Not quite.
The rising numbers in Switzerland prompted new measures, which take time to take effekt. There are 3 major problems identified.
- Partygoers in Clubs, primarily in Zurich. That is a major problem as there hae been several superspreader events.
- Returning travellers from Serbia and Kosovo, both of which have unreliable reporting systems. As a consequence quarantine has been imposed on those.
- Local outbreaks in factories or similar circumstances. That is the bit which is relatively easy to control
Switzerland now has imposed compulsory masks for public transport, overdue since the beginning of the crisis, and is putting people coming from critical areas into quarantine. They want to get back to near zero new infections pdq. I doubt they will however as the summer vaccation business has not been locked down so people are spreading to party places all over Europe.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Not quite.The rising numbers in Switzerland prompted new measures, which take time to take effekt.
If you look at the current case numbers, they are already going down – and as any new measures take 10-14 days to have an effect it is obviously not due to these measures!
There is not such thing as “rising numbers in Switzerland” if you look at the only reasonable measure which is the average of new cases over the incubation period. Everything more granular than that only demonstrates statistical artifacts…
This is sort of interesting although obviously some of it needs to be heavily qualified. For example I got a haircut in Croatia 2 days ago 
and thought it was quite safe. And travelling by plane is 100% safe 
I’m sick at home with all the symptoms of a common cold, and my GP immediately performed a SARS-CoV2 test (swab). It came back negative less than 24 hrs later. My wife, who has the same symptoms but goes to a different GP, got tested as well (also negative) but it took well over 48 hrs for the results to reach her. Seems to be dependent on the lab the surgeries work with.
Peter wrote:
For example I got a haircut in Croatia 2 days ago
Probably the most expensive haircut you’ve ever had
It was €10 but since I am so generous I gave him €20. The UK rate is £10 or so.
There were 3 shops on Krk, 2 closed, but this guy didn’t have a queue, which was rather good. Getting a haircut in the UK was always something to be avoided in the 2 weeks preceeding any holiday, and in current times it would be really dumb.
To get the UK food business going, the govt is paying a meal subsidy. However I think it will be more dangerous than the virus itself
I might buy some shares in this
One interesting bit on the news today is that the govt seems to have concluded that the BLM demonstrations, widely expected to result in a big spread of the virus, have not done so. It is now roughly two incubation times later so even though the young demonstrators would mostly not have symptoms, their parents have now had time to catch it and show symptoms. The conclusion is that the virus does not really spread outdoors. So a lot of outdoor stuff is being re-opened.
The visit to our KFC at ZRH were really the only lunch out I missed…
