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Brussels blocking UK from using EGNOS for LPV - and selection of alternates, and LPV versus +V

EASA requires VMC in the forecast from one hour before to one hour after, which is approx the same as the 3-2-1 rule. PROB TEMPO doesn’t count; PROB or TEMPO (but not both) conditions for short-lived phenomena (showers, thunderstorms, …) don’t count either.

ELLX

But you can plan an alternate, no?

There are plenty of ILS equipped airports around which you have no actual intention of ever landing in, and this is not by a very long way limited to the UK

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

But you can plan an alternate, no?

There are plenty of ILS equipped airports around which you have no actual intention of ever landing in, and this is not by a very long way limited to the UK

And as @Peter has mentioned many time before – most UK airfields with an AIP have got an ILS anyway… :)

EGTR

the service costs nothing. It’s sandbox games by bureaucrats.

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Can you please elaborate?

Do you have specific Information on say Africa paying zero?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Is there a minima based planning requirement?

I don’t know EASA

Yes, the forecast for the alternate must be above the operational minima for the approach to be used at the time you expect to use it. Also, at least one of the destination and alternate must have an approach which does not require GPS.

Note that this applies equally to N-reg in Europe.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

arj1 wrote:

“Depending on the manufacturer, WAAS-enabled GPS units might provide advisory vertical guidance in association with LP or LNAV minima. The manufacturer should use a notation to distinguish advisory vertical guidance (e.g. LNAV+V). The system includes an artificially created advisory glide path from the final approach fix to the touchdown point on the runway. The intent is to aid the pilot in flying constant descent to the MDA. LNAV+V is not the same as LNAV/VNAV or LPV. Pilots must use the barometric altimeter as the primary altitude reference to meet all altitude restriction”
Which means if you follow the +V guidance, you might hit the ground, you HAVE to check the altitude at certain points of your descent.
Plus no angular deviation as Airborne_Again mentions above, only a linear one.

Don’t know where you got the quote you referenced, but there is no downgrade from LPV to LP as these minimums are never charted on the same approach procedure. All downgrades are to LNAV without vertical guidance. +V is advisory guidance from the FAF to the MDA and is not to be used below the MDA. It should respect any step down fixes between the FAF and the MAP, but under warmer than ISA conditions, the GP can dip below the minimum baro altitude indication. With a TSO C145/146 GPS, even an LNAV CDI guidance will be angular +/- 2 degrees FSD, although the FSD on the final approach segment inside the FAF is limited to a maximum of +/- 0.3 NM, which can occur on final approach segments over 7 NM. The +V is constructed as a GP that begins at the FAF at the crossing altitude and crosses the threshold at the TCH. There may be obstacles below the MDA along the +V path, but you are not supposed to use the +V below the MDA.

KUZA, United States

Very interesting.

+V is advisory guidance from the FAF to the MDA and is not to be used below the MDA. It should respect any step down fixes between the FAF and the MAP, but under warmer than ISA conditions, the GP can dip below the minimum baro altitude indication

I wonder how much that drop is worth, given that one is pretty close to the ground anyway, and will have the airport QNH set.

A google on some word groups from arj1’s quote, between double quotes, finds this FAA leaflet.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

A google on some word groups from arj1’s quote, between double quotes, finds this FAA leaflet.

That’s the one.

EGTR

As far as I know in EASA land you currently need an alternate unless an approach can be made in VMC +/-1 hour. This is one of things NPA 2020-02 is addressing and it’s draft suggests:

For IFR flights, the pilot-in-command shall specify at least one destination
alternate aerodrome in the flight plan, unless:
the available current meteorological information for the destination indicates, for the
period from 1 hour before until 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, or from the actual
time of departure to 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, whichever is the shorter period, a ceiling of at least 1 000 ft above the DH/MDH for an available instrument approach procedure and
a visibility of at least 1 500 m by day or 3 000 m by night.

We also have:

An aerodrome shall not be specified as a destination alternate aerodrome unless the available current
meteorological information indicates, for the period from 1 hour before until 1 hour after the
estimated time of arrival, or from the actual time of departure to 1 hour after the estimated time of
arrival, whichever is the shorter period,
(a) for an alternate aerodrome with an instrument approach procedure,
(1) a ceiling of at least 400 ft above the decision height or minimum descent height
associated with an available type A instrument approach operation or at least 200 ft
above the decision height associated with an available type B instrument approach
operation; and
(2) a visibility of at least 1 500 m by day or 5 000 m by night; or
(b) for an alternate aerodrome without an instrument approach procedure,
(1) a ceiling of at least the higher of 2 000 ft and the minimum safe IFR height and
(2) a visibility of at least 1 500 m by day or 5 000 m by night.
United Kingdom
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