LeSving wrote:
Which means no RFID, mobile phone app is needed, but still dead simple
I don’t think Tesla requires you to have the app. You can enter credit card details on the car screen. I’ve done that when using a Turo rented Tesla in the US.
Sometimes Tesla charges require exiting the motorway and driving several km to an obscure place. That’s when I prefer to use other networks.
@LeSving the rapid chargers for European vehicles use a CCS Combo connector the rapid chargers for Tesla and other US EVs use a CHAdeM connector. I don’t think you can recharge a Renault Zoe with a Tesla charger unless it has different connectors.
A grandmother may find it simple to recharge an EV at home. But my wife and I could not get a fast charger to work in Nantes and we are both old enough to be grandparents. In fact whilst connecting to the charger was childsplay, getting the charger to work was impossible despite many people, young and old trying to help.
All I blooming wanted to do was to pay for the stuff and get it to flow. I spoke also with several helplines as noted on the chargers to no avail. Others didn’t answer the phone just rang and rang. Yet others I followed every instruction they gave, downloaded the app, gave my credit card number and the bank verified it, I uploaded the QR code and after all that I was stuck in a city an hour and a half away from home with 50km of battery left. So you EV fans on here you will forgive me I hope for understanding why people are more likely to stay with petrol or diesel engine cars for the time being.
gallois wrote:
In truth it is not range which will hold me back from buying an EV (although more range would be nice) it is the whole complexity of the system and its administration. There is little point in a country like France having more than 200,000 charging points if you can’t use them when and where you need.
Friend of mine who bought the Toyota EV by now as 4 different charge cards and accounts, so he can “member” charge at all the different points which belong to those 4 suppliers. He claims, it is as “easy” as with fuel cards before, where you got cheaper prices with brand fuel cards. If you don’t you have to use either one network or use roaming (with charges) on the others.
According to him, the “free” charging at Lidl and Aldi are gone, up to then he claims he never paid for charging, what he got out of there was enough for him. However Lidl offers charging via their own app at CHF 0.26/kwh AC or 0.46CHF DC, which I understand is quite cheap. He uses another app, which knows which cards he has and which will find the cheapes tarif in the vicinity, so he sais, despite having 4 cards, with that app, all he does is use the search function and it will list the nearest available chargers with prices, he can then choose which one to use. He clams that most of the time, he never takes the cards physically to the station but does everything with the APP, but there are 2-3 stations where there is no mobile internet and there he simply uses the cards, having determined beforehand which station and associated card to use.
I recall a similar app for gasoline but I also use two preferred refuellers for that, so that would not be a big change. Also here, cost differences are quite noticable. I have about 10 gas stations in my environment, the difference between the cheapest and the most expensive is easily 50 cents per liter. So it’s really worth finding out where to fuel! I have 2 fuel cards plus another charge card which has a 10% discount on selected gas stations, with those I never yet failed to find a gas station anywhere. And the same goes for charging.
I think the biggest problem is that when you buy your first EV, there should be a proper introduction done by the seller, to get the people started out with the right packages to make their charging as easy as it gets. Once you are set up with the necessary accounts, you can charge almost everywhere at “member” rates and get into the “how” rather quickly. Those who are sent on their way without a clue, are bound to make costly mistakes. Also it is important that they do know that even if all they can do is hook their car up on their normal 220V line at home with the lawnmower cable to the “emergency charger” you get with most of those cars which end up in a normal wall socket, you can charge quite nicely overnight and mostly cheaper than on any of those.
@Mooney_Driver if only it was that simple.
I have toyed with the idea of buying an EV and was quite pleased with the chance to have an electric vehicle for a couple of weeks. For shopping around town it was great. I liked the quiet, I liked being able to charge at home. Overnight charging on a domestic circuit will give you something between 150 and 200km. But that’s ok for doing the shopping and it’s cheap.
You are right every one charges different but they don’t all keep their list of chargers let alone working chargers up to date.
So you might turn up and find the charger has been removed or you can’t use that particular app for that charger or it needs an RFID card which you don’t have. I only mentioned half the problems we had on a trip to Nantes airport and back.
I do not say that these problems are not solvable but they are a lot of fuss compared to an ICE vehicle. That’s not including the stress.
@LeSving Tesla might use CCS combos in Norway but the chargers certainly are not at Nantes. They are the USA CHAdeM.
gallois wrote:
I only mentioned half the problems we had on a trip to Nantes airport and back.
As I said, my information is 2nd hand. Unfortunately one hears a lot of bad experiences too, particularly when using those vehicles long haul.
gallois wrote:
Overnight charging on a domestic circuit will give you something between 150 and 200km. But that’s ok for doing the shopping and it’s cheap.
Yep. And the one hour “fee” charge used to give about 50 km. But they are gone now.
gallois wrote:
they are a lot of fuss compared to an ICE vehicle. That’s not including the stress.
I agree. That is why my own take for now is that the best of 2 worlds is a Plug In Hybrid.
Nope.
US NACS (which is the tesla standard now adopted by others in NA) is not available in Europe.
Most cars in Europe have Type 2 / “Mennekes” connectors for (up to three phase) AC charging.
Teslas in Europe use a Type 2 / “Mennekes” connector where DC is routed through pins normally used for AC. They can also be recharged AC through the same connector.
The idiotic European solution adds 2 clunky DC pins to the Type 2 / “Mennekes” connector and calls it CCS because they had to be different from Tesla
Newer Teslas have CCS ports.
CHAdeMO is Japanese and very rare in both Europe and US.
What do you mean nope.
France = 1/normal 2 pin one earth hole domestic
2/ Type 2 = A box which you need your own connector Type 2 looks a bit like the sort we use in the garden 3 pins heavy weight cable. Up to 22Kw on AC
3/ CCS combo = DC connector coming from the charger Has the 3 pin Type 2 at the top half and the bottom half of the plug is a rectangle with 3 pins which you remove a plastic cover below the type 2 input and it is all as one plug. 22kw to 360kw DC.
4/ CHAdeMo = DC rapid charger. As you say more popular in Japan and Asia. Can charge 80% of a vehicle in 1hour whereas CCS combo can charge 80% in 30mins.
CHAde Mo is available in France and is used for cars like the Nissan Leaf. The connector doesn’t appear to have pins. They look like 2 white electric shaver heads and 2 holes. Can be found at some supermarkets.
5/Tesla now use CCS but originally developed NACS (North American charging system). AFAIK NACS is not available in France.
For me this all smacks of the Betamax, VHS, Grundig/Philips competition with a touch of PAL, SECAM, NTSC, Brazilia PAL TV systems thrown into the mix.
The first group sorted itself out through competition although the best quality system didn’t necessarily win.
And the 2nd group had to wait for digital TV to sort itself out.
But as I wrote I think this multitude of systems will sort itself out. The major problem is the abundance of charger suppliers. All trying to pay for the chargers and make a profit. All paying different prices to their electricity supplier and all passing those different prices plus a mark up onto the customer. It’s all set up for a bubble to burst and a whole lot of small suppliers going bust and leaving the taxpayer to pick up the costs and/ or for the larger companies such as Total Energy to profit by mopping up the small companies and their customers.
The way it has been in Norway is:
Tesla had their own chargers. Proprietary Tesla. This changed when Model 3 came. From around that time 2018/2019 Tesla gradually changed to CCS. Today many older Model S has the old system and has to use an adapter. I think it’s also possible to rebuilt the connector permanently.
At the same time, 2010 to 2014 ISH came CCS and Chademo. CSS for all European cars except French cars. Chademo for all Japanese cars (Leaf mostly) and French cars (one Renault).
Today they all use CCS. Perhaps some Japanese/French cars still use Chademo, don’t know. But lots of older cars use Chademo.
LeSving wrote:
Today many older Model S has the old system and has to use an adapter. I think it’s also possible to rebuilt the connector permanently.
Yes, that’s pretty close :-) A modification of the car is required to use the CCS adapter on older Teslas. I still have one of those, because it has free supercharging for life.
