Malibuflyer wrote:
Legally you can not “open” a flight plan in Europe.
What do you mean by “legally”? Of course you can open a flight plan. When you do, at the very least the SAR clock starts ticking. The clearance has nothing to do with it. You can be issued a clearance both before and after the flight plan is opened. (Or “activated” if you prefer that word.)
Airborne_Again wrote:
Again, neither France nor any other country can have laws or regulations that “differ” or “supplement” EU regulations (unless the regulation itself allow it)
The sad reality is that, not only in France, regulators, maintenance organisations, airports, customs, police or other officials make up rules that are beyond their powers. And unless you have a choice (which invariably with most of the above you don’t) you are stuck with it.
Are we mixing stuff here?
Open FPL = SAR
Startup IFR = ATM Flow management and IFR slot
Full Route IFR Clearance = “cleared to Dinard”, you can go all the way to destination as cleared
Initial route IFR Clearance = “climb FL80 toward XXX, remain VMC”, not cleared to destination !!
Takeoff IFR clearance = “cleared to takeoff”
….
I doubt asking for “IFR startup” or “open IFR”, entitles me to fly approach at destination or land on runway there? it does not even entitle one to takeoff !
No as I wrote it doesn’t clear you to fly the approach or land at destination because ETA on your flight plan is the IAF unless there is no IAF and then it is vertical the airfield.
I think it is in the eAIP, but I have been combing so many documents lately to find particular legal details.
But from reading this stuff and putting 2 and 2 together and yes, possibly making 5 IMO the following is how it goes in France:
To fly IFR outside of the airfield area, you need to file a flight plan.
Once acknowledged/ accepted that counts as a “clearance” to fly that flight plan as filed.
But of course before you can do that it has to be “activated” a good word.
This needs to be done within a small 15 minute window of the EOBT filed in the flight plan or a CTOT.
Activation can be done on the ground, by telephone in the case of an unmanned airfield or through an AFIS if they are able to do so, or once in the air with the SIV/FIS for the area giving the time of take off or the point (in helicopters procedures, this is called the PinS, point in space) for airplanes this is likely to be called an intersection or way point.
According to the eAIP, once activated you have implicit " clearance/ approval" to follow your flight plan as filed even across FIR boundaries
Again, according to eAIP there are downstream agreements with some adjoining FIRs of other countries, and so the implicit clearance should apply equally to those FIRs as well. However, this bit does not seem to necessarily, always apply, based on posts in this forum.
Also of course, as I wrote in a previous posts one can be asked to deviate for certain reasons from the flight plan or the pilot can request changes on route for various reasons. These may or may not be granted.
As I wrote these are personal thoughts based on recent experiences, talking to ACC and ATCOs and reading and re-reading various legislation the AIP, and various published booklets.
So here I am ready to be shot down in flames
But I would be grateful if you could point me in the direction of any legal text to back up your bullets. There is a huge amount to go through, otherwise, starting with ICAO and what has been accepted into EU and French law and what hasn’t been.
gallois wrote:
So here I am ready to be shot down in flames
Ok! 
Once acknowledged/ accepted that counts as a “clearance” to fly that flight plan as filed.
Nonononono! An accepted flight plan is never a clearance. Never ever!
On the other hand, it is true that (for IFR) controllers don’t actually know if you have been given a clearance or not. They’re just handling you according to the current flight plan and coordination with other sectors, so in practise it would seem like you have a clearance. Unless, of course, ATC decided to change your routing after the flight plan was accepted! There is no way you would know except for the clearance.
gallois wrote:
Once acknowledged/ accepted that counts as a “clearance” to fly that flight plan as filed
Anyone who does that on IFR departure from LesMureaux LFXU after asking CDG for start up is likely to be a rock star, when IFR clearances becomes very tactical, ATC may call them IFR instructions
According to the eAIP, once activated you have implicit " clearance/ approval" to follow your flight plan as filed even across FIR boundaries
I’d like to see that reference!
An accepted flight plan is never a clearance. Never ever!
Exception: on loss of radio contact under “Eurocontrol IFR” (IFR in CAS, basically).
Peter wrote:
Exception: on loss of radio contact under “Eurocontrol IFR” (IFR in CAS, basically)
I think that for this to be true you need to have got an initial clearance. In practise, though, having the flight plan activated should be sufficient.
Eurocontrol does from time to time allow one to file IFR trough restricted and prohibited areas in Golf in UK & France
Reference:-
SIA eAIP 1.3.9.1.3 Services of control
Limits of clearance.
