I’m really less pessimistic about the future of GA, sure there have been some difficulties in the past 2 years, but it still largely beats any form of commercial flying if you stay within the continent. I think a lot of people who have disposable income do understand that. The private jet sector is booming, and busier than pre-pandemic, I cannot imagine some of the people using those services not dreaming about owning and potentially operating their own aircraft. The more difficult it becomes and the less enjoyable to fly on CAT, the more people with money will move towards a better experience. That’s also a part of the GA spectrum, it may not be the one we refer to, but I’m bullish there will be spillover. Now that the world is more focused on opening things up again, we see a lot less of Greta, I feel there is a huge opportunity for good travel machines… I definitely plan on doing a lot more than I’ve been doing…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
there have been some difficulties in the past 2 years
Well, somehow I think the last 2 years actually have given GA a boost. Why? Because many people had a lot of time on their hands and were unable to do their usual trips with airlines, also they realized how fragile those things are and that not much can be taken for granted these days. So if you wanna get on with your dreams, why not now.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Now that the world is more focused on opening things up again, we see a lot less of Greta, I feel there is a huge opportunity for good travel machines…
If there is anything we have all learnt from the past 2 years it is that the population will react violently about restrictions on their lives even in the face of a clear and present danger. This should and I am sure has been a wake up call from certain people who have been musing about totalitarian ideas on how to “save the planet”. If it was not possible to save society while there were people dying by the dozens and hundreds, I think it has become clear to all but the most fascist outcasts that the kind of stuff they proposed won’t get through, not even in countries which do not have direct democracy to stop them. In Switzerland, the rejection of the CO2 laws last year was a clear message to the green-left wing in that direction.
Another lesson learnt was how fast society can be split from semi tolerant to open hostility, even though also that is not exactly new. What is new is the sheer quantity of people who openly rebelled. For GA, it is more necessary than ever that all pull on one string for the string to become a seizable rope. We can not afford having GA split into fractions who only think of themselves. We can’t even more so not afford to have Aviation split, as it is. Mending the existing splits and working on a constructive future has to be the goals of aviaiton associations.
National borders in the EU attract undue attention for aircraft only, when compared with road traffic. If tracking cross border air traffic is the issue, the solution is to require Mode S or equivalent for cross border traffic and nothing else, no radio contact, no flight plan, no specific entry points.
I always smile about the concept of US aviation being “subsidized”. It’s equivalent to saying any normal and expected government infrastructure is a subsidy. Not every tax payer uses boat harbors or even roads either.
Responding to the questions above on regulatory differences in the EU versus US, there are probably hundreds of them but the first roadblocks that come to my mind are:
Much more complex medical certification including EKGs for private pilots, no 3rd class or Basic Med or Sport Pilot analogy unless you fly non-certified ULMs only, with limited airport/airspace access.
Significant altitude, airspace and radio use restrictions on ULM/LSA style aircraft with complex and non-uniform details, even within a single country.
Radio licenses required for both pilots and planes.
Rating expirations and renewals, loss of ratings over time unless actively using them.
Extra ratings required for night flying, aerobatics etc.
Aerobatics often require elaborate procedures and radio contact.
No Experimental airworthiness category, with homebuilt design certification regulated.
Flugleiters required in some areas, airports in many areas cannot be operated without ground staff, leading to issues with night operations.
Pilot operated lighting is a legal issue.
Flying from your own property is generally illegal without approval.
No A&P engine overhauls, repair station only.
Formal inspection and paperwork procedures required to run an engine or propeller past manufacturers recommended TBO.
Support organization required to maintain C of A of certified aircraft.
Periodic aircraft C of A expiration, more elaborate airworthiness renewal and paperwork procedures than a simple A&P Annual Inspection with logbook entry. Ludicrous CAMO complexity still required for some operations of privately owned light aircraft.
Class D airspace around airports requires a transponder, and it’s generally Mode S, making those airports off limits to simple aircraft.
8.33 radio airspace requirements
Pop-up IFR considered punishable pilot error, not a valuable tactical tool.
And so on – my breakfast time is over and it’s time to go make some flying money 
Silvaire wrote:
It’s equivalent to saying any normal and expected government infrastructure is a subsidy.
The view on what is normal and expected from government varies quite a lot.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Well, somehow I think the last 2 years actually have given GA a boost. Why? Because many people had a lot of time on their hands and were unable to do their usual trips with airlines, also they realized how fragile those things are and that not much can be taken for granted these days. So if you wanna get on with your dreams, why not now.That is for sure all true, however, there is also the other side… Covid-19 brought also employees and entrepreneurs at their (financial) limits. I’ve seen people selling their planes in the past 2 years, due to financial issues. And I’ve also seen people giving up flying at our aeroclub or reducing their flying hours drastically, mainly because of financial challenges. Also, more people found their interest in ULM flying, mainly because of lower costs.
Flying a DA40 one hour a week around here costs 15.000€ per year (4,8€*60min*50h). So 1250€ a month without landing fees, Foreflight subs, Medical, Airport parking etc… Even at a good salary (very good actually) of 5000€ net that’s 3-4 months working for flying.4,80 euros per minute for a DA40? That sounds like Swiss prices or like a commercial flying school or charter company. In Germany, several aeroclubs are charging around 3 euros per minute for a DA40. I even know several aeroclubs that just charge around 1,20 per minute for a DA20/DV20!
Silvaire wrote:
you can still fly all the way across the US without English language proficiency
Nope, you cannot. One of the prerequisites of obtaining an FAA license is the ‘ability to speak English’ and recent guidance by the FAA to US AMEs emphasizes that.
Frans wrote:
4,80 euros per minute for a DA40?
Holy crap! That’s more (way more!) than what I would pay for a twin here! At prices like that GA really is doomed.
Thanks @Silvaire for a very good analysis of the sorry state of European aviation.
Methinks aviation here is a reflection of the EU mess. Instead of a leaned-out political system, the EU ended up in creating hundreds of additional positions of political unimportance, each country being preoccupied of sustaining or increasing its perceived privileges. Politician bureaucrats at their best. The United States of Europe, what a missed, once in man’s history, opportunity!
Same in aviation, an hermaphrodite called EASA came into being and now oversees each CAA. Those are trying to retain their sometimes peculiar or complicated way of doing things, which are for sure better than whatever the neighbors are doing. And keep the lawyers and clerks busy, fat and happy.
Notwithstanding what could happen in a near future conflict, the price of GA, also in the US, is exploding right now. A look at the increasing shipping costs, price of gas, used and new aircraft tags, etc., shows that GA will take a major hit… the fittest (richest?) might survive.
@172driver, the route to flying across the US as a deaf mute in the US is to become a deaf mute after you get your Certificate and then likely fly under Sport Pilot regs requiring a US drivers license for medical certification. And then in relation to the operational issue of required ELP, and as I said, you don’t need to have a radio or talk on the radio at any point to fly to most US airports.
In addition you don’t actually need an FAA certificate to fly across the US, only an ICAO member state license and matching plane. If you could get that license without speaking English, and if you had that plane in the US, the same lack of ELP operational restriction would apply.
4,80 euros per minute for a DA40?
It is fairly common to pay GBP 250/hr for a PA28-161 rental. But… that’s rental for you
the route to flying across the US as a deaf mute in the US is to become a deaf mute after you get your Certificate and then likely fly under Sport Pilot regs requiring a US drivers license for medical certification
The US prob99 has a route for deaf pilots to fly. Europe (well, the UK at least) always had that, but it is a huge hassle for the pilot to arrange such flights, to any towered airport. Between farm strips, you could do it all day.
In Europe, it has become a bit of a Cause célèbre that somebody turned up at the office of the “well known DPE” hoping to get a mate of his to do the speaking
