The Norwegian government has today decided to effectively double the defense budget.
Glad to see at least one European country doing its part, carrying its weight and recognizing that reality will eventually intrude on fantasy.
LeSving wrote:
The Norwegian government has today decided to effectively double the defense budget.
Well, that big bad wulf over yonder is certainly huffin and puffin… so not a bad idea I’d reckon.
LeSving wrote:
Back to cold war standard it seems
And that cold war was much colder than today’s situation.
Dan wrote:
Also can’t wait for the other clown to be re-elected, then it’ll get really interesting.
Yep. I reckon it’s not too unlikely that his ideas about just how he will “stop the war in Ukraine in one hour” are not that different from his arrangement with the Taliban… that one went really well too…
Apparently taking Europe and the UK together they spend €300 billion a year on defence. This according to reports on the news is second only to the USA in terms of spend. Ahead of Russia and China but of course behind USA. I can’t find official references to the source of those figures, and I find it difficult to believe. I also don’t know whether or not Turkey is included in the figure. Anybody know?
It did say that most of the equipment part of that budget is spent with USA companies.
Perhaps as well as increasing our spend we need to build up our own manufacturing base.
The other big factor, which is obviously on US’s mind, is that the US has to be ready to fight wars on multiple fronts (Ukraine, China invading Taiwan, etc) whereas Europe only needs to deal with Russia’s adventures. Also US needs to be able to deliver “US feet on the ground” whereas the Russia stuff, for the time being at least, can be done just by supplying hardware (and some low profile covert human assistance) to Ukraine.
Also the majority of production (both in the US and Europe) does not go to Ukraine and is unlikely to ever do so. The last few videos here
https://www.youtube.com/@PerunAU/videos
cover the industrial aspect very well. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has woken up the world and has led to an arms export bonanza, and unfortunately Ukraine gets only what is left over, which is nowhere near any large manufacturing country’s production capacity.
Another interesting aspect is what will remain of Switzerland’s arms industry when the smoke has cleared. Nobody with a brain will be buying anything there, because they can’t use it when it is needed i.e. before they themselves get invaded 
gallois wrote:
Perhaps as well as increasing our spend we need to build up our own manufacturing base.
That’s one of the benefits of being part of NATO. It’s literally a big home marked for military equipment and it’s all standardized. The only way to reduce cost per unit of military equipment, is to produce more of each unit, because the development costs are insane. USA is the biggest spender, but bits and pieces are made everywhere. This was done with the F-16, and is now being done with the F-35. It’s good for defense, but NATO is also good for getting the loudest bang for as little money as possible for everyone involved. Kongsberg produces a whole bunch of titanium and carbon fiber parts and airframe structures for the F-35, not only the Norwegian ones, but all of them. It’s the same with NASAMS. It uses US missiles (AMRAAM and AIM-9 X), but the rocket engines of every missile are produced by NAMMO. It’s a win-win situation.
Trump made headlines when he said every NATO country should spend more (in his way of saying it). Did the western press really understand what he meant? It was not as much that the US spend more money in itself, it was more that a lot of that money goes directly into the pockets of European companies, without the European nations spending their share. In essence the US military financing European businesses.
Peter wrote:
whereas Europe only needs to deal with Russia’s adventures.
Well, we’d be as hurt as the Americans if China started invading Taïwan. But maybe we’d let them tackle the problem for us.
“Thanks to” or “due to” Putin? So many human, mineral and financial resources wasted instead of used for purposes that this planet really needs. Amazing how one guy creates so much damage just out of ego, frustration, madness, jealousy or whatever else drives him.
So many human, mineral and financial resources wasted instead of used for purposes that this planet really needs.
Unfortunately. I don’t see how increasing defense budget can benefit country’s economy and wellbeing. But it is what it is and obviously we’ll have to live with it until this madness ends.
aart wrote:
So many human, mineral and financial resources wasted instead of used for purposes that this planet really needs.
This is humans we are talking about…. did you really expect any better? Seeing the hate all over the place, even within people allegedly trying to save the planet, it is only a question of time until the frustration grows enough to blow up. Moreover, politics all over the world grow more and more tribal. And we know what that means, tribal is the opposite of tolerance and bridge building. Quite a few countries are candidates for political violence these days as governments are increasingly incapable of ruling with a consens, but focus on vilifying the oppositon and pressing for more and more hate.
aart wrote:
Amazing how one guy creates so much damage just out of ego, frustration, madness, jealousy or whatever else drives him.
I think it is much more than “just” one guy. It is the whole world situation which enboldens people like him. The West is at a low point he and others have been waiting for decades. And he is not alone. China would attack Taiwan tomorrow if they felt they can get away with it and would not stop there. Ask the Australians how they feel about it. Iran would level most of the Mid East given the chance. Not to speak of many other conflicts all over the place.
As long as this “I am right, you are wrong, save your arguments” attitude prevails, violence is only a question of time, not of if. Mad dogs need to be separated vigorously, which in the cold war happened via MAD. Now that the US is at the breaking point, that assurance is no longer as fixed as it used to be. No wonder Putin and others with similar hatred against the “West” feel emboldened.
All “empires” have fallen sooner or later. Maybe this shot across the bow (or rather too close for comfort) now has woken up Europeans at least what happens if they fall for the “can we all be friends now” trap. I must admit, I also thought this would work, but it was naive. In the end, world politics is nothing but a global “Game of Thrones” and the biggest bully usually wins. Nothing new here.
I think it is much more than “just” one guy
True, the guys around him are not exactly pacifists, and one could say the same of a large part of the poor, brainwashed population. Yet I believe when we talk about the Ukraine war, to me he is the one that tipped the scale. It seems like a personal vengeance, and of course anybody raising his voice against him risks some health damage.
