@Silvaire you summed up the nice side of GA very well. Part of the enjoyment is figuring out how to look after these incredible pieces of machinery and hopefully pass them on to the next owner running nicely and smoothly.
@dublinpilot I think the USA has a more experienced pre buy process, but which also results in a lot of failed trades, especially in a relatively hot second hand market. I must confess, if the aircraft has good documentation, flies straight and delivers book performance, I tend to wonder what is gained by a cursory pre buy. Having said, that am aware of one recent purchase, where the buyer on subsequent investigation found the aircraft had a spar problem. Again, most pre buys would not have uncovered this, and most sellers would not allow the sort of invasive maintenance/inspection to uncover this, unless it was an overdue AD item.
@WFAviation am guessing this is the focus of the Cirrus community, giving as close to a high end automobile buying experience.
Silvaire wrote:
Realistic expectations and willingness to engage are certainly useful. When I bought my first plane I didn’t have any useful contacts either, and like this guy didn’t fly my plane for 6 months (in my case not one flight). During that period I made contacts that have lasted me to this day, 20 years later, and it was one of the best periods I can remember. I fixed all the problems on the plane, learned a lot
Exactly this. As mentioned elsewhere I spent nearly a year (and still just almost there) sorting out my first airplane purchase. And much of that was learning and building relationships. I also got a lot of no’s and unreturned calls, and quality issues that I now realize were mostly related to the state of the 40-yr-old wiring. Most of that is gone now, and what isn’t will be shortly, and we’ve had zero issues since doing the refurb and bringing the plane to almost-new condition. Being a new owner takes a lot of patience and a lot of money, and I can understand how some people don’t make it through that initial period.
I like Silvaire’s comment “it’s better to buy something less demanding than an older Bonanza as your first plane” and fully agree. In my life I have bought three planes: the first on C150 with 7000$ in 1987, C150 for 6400$ in 1989 and Ralley Club for 11000e in 2019 and they all have been better than expected. The first one I and my friend used for about 700 hours and I sold it away in Guatemala for 5000 when running out of money, the current one is a great little plane.
So if you buy cheap, don’t expect much and do as much maintenance as possible just yourself, it can result to a happy future. It is safer to start with something cheaper just to be sure. Of course it depends on a lot of things but a pre buy check always is like pre buy for a house: even after extensive checking you never can be quite sure what pops up the next day.
To me most surprises have been interesting experiencies. After less than one year the first plane gyros both quit working about at the same time. Really odd – but I ordered new bearings and changed them, and the sun was shining again. And similar things every now and then. The attitude is very important in all parts of life and we should not forget that…
But yes – it is true that getting younger people fly is really demanding as their noses are in those phones all the time. They don’t look around and realize that the life may have something else to offer, which is a big problem in all clubs, not only flight clubs. I don’t think, ga is dying – after all owning and using an own plane has never been as cheap (compared to salaries) as now. Rented planes are more expensive than 50 years ago, so basically flying is “cheap” only when you own the plane and can use it pretty much. The cost for renting goes up because of those same salaries for mechanics, which you can pretty much avoid with new maintenance rules for your own private plane. This is how I see it – you might have other view.
A prebuy by an engineer is necessary – but for saving money only after you’ve done a thorough check yourself. First learn to read logbooks. Then contact an engineer. Not necessarily an engineering company. Try to find contacts who fly that type. Then examine the logbooks of your chosen aircraft. Then the aircraft. Talk to the engineer, on phone. Talk to people at its base, if they start chatting to you.
After agreeing purchase “subject to inspection” get YOUR engineer to inspect. We sent our engineer from Inverness to Bodmin in 1990,
and saved on what he found.
In 1999 we looked at 7 aircraft before sending our engineer to inspect the one we bought.
Recent logbook discrepancies can be an immediate reject. I found an item due some time ago but not done. The sellers engineer said it had been done, just not entered in the logbook.
The best inspection is by the guy who is going to maintain it for you.
Snoopy wrote:
The perfect plane popped up for sale. As luck would have it, it was at my home airport.
This kind of give away that guy’s mindset. Unless he is based on one of he huge GA airfields like Van Nuys or Montgomery (or similar) after many years of flying out of an airport you have made your connections and also know who maintains his plane(s) well and who doesn’t. It sounds like he never talked to anyone at his home base.
Other than that, $ 4500 for a prebuy is about standard, at least around SoCal (again, we don’t know where this chap is based).
The US has a lot more choice but if one does the wrong things one will get bitten anywhere.
I would firstly ask if he was there for the prebuy. A lot of people aren’t and usually they pay the price in a big way. Only the other day someone asked me if I know someone for a prebuy, and he was not going to be present. I told him he must be. Didn’t hear back.
A shop which maintained the plane can’t be trusted to give a view on anything.
He got a “funny” seller. Lots of them around. I hear stories all the time. Lots of jokers “selling” a plane.
A prebuy has to involve an avionics check. Most people don’t do that, often because they can’t find anybody who knows the kit. Most instructors know little about avionics (in depth). Also a flight test. This is hard; you need to actually check the kit… like whether the autopilot works 
Standard “mechanical” shops tend to know nothing about avionics.
In Europe almost nobody knows the OBS mode and in the US it will be far fewer (you don’t need it for GPS approaches) but most avionics installers just follow wiring diagrams. I know a guy who installed 100+ GNS430 boxes, mostly off the books, and never connected the OBS stuff (didn’t know what it was – the HSI course pointer).
All this could have happened anywhere.
What plane did he buy? There are some types which would need an anorexic person to get even an arm in around the engine bay "smile: Also some types tend to be in a poor conditions due to the type of owners they attract.
The GA industry isn’t dying but it is in a long term decline. It has serious structural issues, in knowledge, customer service, project management, and often poor attitudes of people working in it. It is probably similar to antique cars but at least most of the owners of those are willing to pay.
The OBS mode is incredibly useful for holds and I use it quite a bit.
gallois wrote:
The OBS mode is incredibly useful for holds and I use it quite a bit.
yes but you also have the hold functionality in the 650xi, don’t you use it?
You can have OBS mode, it’s in every VOR CDI…being able to turn CRS on CDI or HSI while watching it turning in GPS screen is a luxury and require good installer, it’s unlikely to be required for people under US ATC as it’s mostly DCT to IAF or RV to ILS? one usually need it when flying the GPS approach to join some circuit in Dreux or Little Snoring
It’s possible to be required for holds on GPS waypoints? but some use ‘single arrow pointer’ display like an ADF RBI rather than ‘cross-track’ like an VOR OBS?
