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EU dual papers regulation - enforced at EDTF Freiburg

Just an FYI: the entry permit (in this case not 180 days but only up to expiration of insurance) is titled “ Permission for foreign aircraft with restricted certification”. In this case the restriction I believe is the fact it’s an ELSA (experimental light sport aircraft in FAA parlance). The documents required to get it included the Special Airworthiness Certificate (that builder receives from FAA after flight testing). Other docs were registration, operating limitations and insurance, current annual inspection sign-off.

EDFG, Germany

Further questions to be asked are:
1. Under what conditions is an authority such as the LBA in Germany allowed to require airport staff (flugleiter, some with higher certifications in that realm) to perform these checks. I ask because I don’t think they have to agree to a request to do so.
2. Is any authority OTHER than the LBA allowed to require such checks?
3. When can it be determined that a rule/law is “arbitrary” and/or cannot be enforced until shown otherwise? Or is there such a notion of arbitrariness? I ask because I’m apparently one of the very few (?) this has happened to.

I’ll just reiterate that had I known this I would have taken care of it. “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” – but I think this is unfair and arbitrary and I should be able to at least fly myself to the country where I’ll get the EASA license! (It won’t be Germany.)

EDFG, Germany

Of course, if you‘re based there you have an interest in maintaining good relationships.

You mention a ramp check, which implies to me a representative of the German CAA (LBA?) „grounded“ you. Did you request to see their qualifications? There is a specific qualification for ramp inspectors defined in ARO.RAMP, and you can request that they show it to you. Any local staff could make whatever statement they want, but without the necessary authority it would have no enforcement impact on you.

Given the questions about Annex 1, you could have asked for them to show you the respective regulation. I believe it would need to be a German regulation, not EASA, since Annex 1 falls under national jurisdiction. As far as I‘m aware, the EU regulation (implemented by EASA) only applies to aircraft under EASA jurisdiction, that is with a type certificate issued by EASA. I‘m sure someone here will correct me if I‘m wrong.

LSZK, Switzerland

I would be amazed if any individual (in any civilised country) could ground you on the spot, as a pilot.

Of course anybody carrying a 9mm can say what he likes and you will obey for sure but that’s intimidation, not legal authority.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Amazement ON ;-)
Germany has a law that provides for the authorities of the states to take care of the safety of aviation.
They can pass on this duty to persons at the airfields/airports. In such case, the person that talks to you on the radio is not only a dreaded ‘Flugleiter’ without mich clout, but may also be a BfL, authorised to act on behalf of the regional authorities.
This person is (like the regional authority itself) entitled to inspect the plane and the crew / crew papers; and in case of fact-based concerns reg. safety of air traffic can ground you (para 29, LuftVG).

That said, (put mildly) I find it a legal stretch that a licence, which does allow to fly the plane here, unless you are a resident, poses a safety risk and could justify a grounding.

...
EDM_, Germany

chflyer wrote:

As far as I‘m aware, the EU regulation (implemented by EASA) only applies to aircraft under EASA jurisdiction, that is with a type certificate issued by EASA. I‘m sure someone here will correct me if I‘m wrong.

Aircraft under “EASA jurisdiction” are not limited to those with TC’s issued by EASA! Actually, it is irrelevant who issued the TC.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

Aircraft under “EASA jurisdiction” are not limited to those with TC’s issued by EASA! Actually, it is irrelevant who issued the TC.

Is it possible that an a/c with no EASA TC could be registered in EASA world?
My understanding was you need either an EASA TC (which could be just a validation if bilateral agreement exists).

EGTR

Not as certified, not possible.

As Annex 1, yes, e.g. a Lancair 320 can be NL-reg.

Germany has a law that provides for the authorities of the states to take care of the safety of aviation.
They can pass on this duty to persons at the airfields/airports. In such case, the person that talks to you on the radio is not only a dreaded ‘Flugleiter’ without mich clout, but may also be a BfL, authorised to act on behalf of the regional authorities.

I would still want to see the person’s credentials.

For example does the Flugleiter have the power of arrest? And he would need that to stop you moving yourself.

“Grounding” a pilot is legally complicated; it is a licensing action and I doubt any civilised country has the means to do it on the spot. The police can, by arresting you But what is “grounding”?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

arj1 wrote:

Is it possible that an a/c with no EASA TC could be registered in EASA world?

Yes, sure. E.g. Cessna 172 models earlier than R and S do not have an EASA TC. In fact, the search function for TC’s on the EASA web site does not allow you to enter a year earlier than 2004.

My understanding was you need either an EASA TC (which could be just a validation if bilateral agreement exists).

If any validations exist, then there is no obvious way of finding them on the EASA web site.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

But what is “grounding”?

The pilot you referred to hasn’t been “grounded”. (S)he was been informed that (s)he can’t legally fly the aircraft in EASA-land without obtaining an EASA license. That was true before the ramp check as well. The ramp check changed nothing as regards the pilot’s status – only the pilot’s awareness of that status.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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