Frans wrote:
Frankfurt and Munich also offer officially German RT, but in practice, they will force you more or less to do English. There are however some US-military towers in Germany, how offer English-only, like in the Ramstein CTR.
I thought ATC conversations could be done in any language as mutually agreed by the pilot and controller, but that it must revert to English if either requests it?
If the ATCO is German, why would they refuse?
Graham wrote:
If the ATCO is German, why would they refuse?
Because he is German? 
Graham wrote:
I thought ATC conversations could be done in any language as mutually agreed by the pilot and controller, but that it must revert to English if either requests it?
The controller can’t request English unless the ATS unit is designated as English only. SERA.14015 “Language to be used in air-ground communication” gives the full story:
(a) The air-ground radiotelephony communications shall be conducted in the English language or in the language normally used by the station on the ground.
(b) The English language shall be available, on request of any aircraft, at all stations on the ground serving designated aerodromes and routes used by international air services. Unless otherwise prescribed by the competent authority for specific cases, the English language shall be used for communications between the ATS unit and aircraft, at aerodromes with more than 50000 international IFR movements per year. ….
(c) The languages available at a given station on the ground shall form part of the Aeronautical Information Publications and other published aeronautical information concerning such facilities.
Then there is some text both in (b) and in the AMC about alternative criteria for English-only communication.
Graham wrote:
I thought ATC conversations could be done in any language as mutually agreed by the pilot and controller, but that it must revert to English if either requests it?If the ATCO is German, why would they refuse?
Because there is a real lot of traffic on these frequencies and 99% of them communicate in English. Therefore it is not only quite convenient for the controller to talk to you in English but also (“here comes the big hammer argument”) a safety factor that all of the other traffic also understands what you tell them.
In addition this is a typical situation of theory vs. reality: Yes, according to the law you as a pilot are entitled to insist on German. Unfortunately, however, you are not entitled to cross their airspace at all (unless for landing/takeoff that is a multi hundred EUR fun in Frankfurt and not possible with SEP in Munich).
So in practice the ATC is very willing to tell you in German that unfortunately you need to stay out of their airspace. If you ask in English, however, odds are much higher that they accept your.
But that is only Frankfurt and Munich – for good reasons. In all other German Airspaces you can speak German if you really wish to.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Unless otherwise prescribed by the competent authority for specific cases, the English language shall be used for communications between the ATS unit and aircraft, at aerodromes with more than 50000 international IFR movements per year. ….
English LP is required here, except for Balloon, sailplanes and UL. The (un)competent authority has decided that flying one of those, and not having English LP, then Norwegian can be spoken to ATC. For PPL, or stationed in- / flying regularly in, controlled airspace, no chance however, English LP is required, and therefore the language is English. In practice English is followed for the usual stuff, but ATC will typically repeat in Norwegian if you don’t understand, and no problem talking to ATC in Norwegian for more complex/unusual stuff.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Unless otherwise prescribed by the competent authority for specific cases, the English language shall be used for communications between the ATS unit and aircraft, at aerodromes with more than 50000 international IFR movements per year
I guess that disqualifies Charles De-Gaulle (or maybe fudged their mouvements number) to keep Air France union happy about speaking French RT for “french pilots”, there was a national legal text but I just can’t get hold on it 
This French ATCO may know whether the French law (mandating French pilots to speak French to French ATC) has been repealed.
This dual language mandate is about the dumbest thing you can come up with. Not only deprives it the non-XXX (insert your favorite lingo here) pilots from SA, but it’s also really hard on the ATCO. In a former life I worked as translator and interpreter and after a day of interpreting your brain is fried. I am still used to switching between several languages on a daily basis (three so far today) but would absolutely not, I say again NOT, want to do the work of ATC like that.
Fair enough.
172driver wrote:
This dual language mandate is about the dumbest thing you can come up with
That depends. The usual ATC phrases should be no problem in any language IMO. Even a Brit should be able to understand/memorize a dozen different standardized short phrases in any language. The exceptions to SERA in Norway however, clearly specify that they shall be done in “Norwegian everyday/common language”. This is because there are no Norwegian aviation RT lingo. Out in non controlled airspace, there are no ATC, thus no rules of how to talk on the radio, except when in contact with Polaris, then it is English as usual. At those airports and strips, everyday/common Norwegian is what is commonly spoken, and what is actually said, can be lots of different stuff. The practice is also to transmit blindly, so foreigners will have great difficulties understanding anything at all. English can be used however, preferably English RT, people will most probably understand it, but don’t expect others to speak English on the radio
