I wouldn’t say the density is high in Norway, but the only requirement for transponder here is mode C, and only in controlled airspace. And then it’s up to the ATCO to decide if a non-transponding aircraft can enter, which they do depending on other traffic. But, the whole system is changing. All primary radars will be gone by 2025, substituted by WAM and ADS-B. Mode S and/or ADS-B will surely increase, but no talk of any requirement of any kind as of yet, not for non-commercial GA.
All primary radars will be gone by 2025,
How will Norway detect the USSR invading?
They won’t be flying with Mode S.
Peter wrote:
How will Norway detect the USSR invading?
On the other hand, to detect the USSR invading, you would need a time machine.
Why do you need PSR for civil traffic controller?
Military will have those.
arj1 wrote:
Why do you need PSR for civil traffic controller?
To detect nontransponding traffic. E.g. military traffic over international waters. Swedish ATC is reinstalling PSR for that reason.
Jujupilote wrote:
Off course all traffic is not shown but is it relevant as a ‘heat map’ ?
I suspect the “heatmap” is more relavent to detection gear and different countries take-up of ADSB rather than overall activity…
Airborne_Again wrote:
arj1 wrote: Why do you need PSR for civil traffic controller?To detect nontransponding traffic. E.g. military traffic over international waters. Swedish ATC is reinstalling PSR for that reason.
They can probably ask for a filtered feed from the military for that…
Still feels like a waste. Great toy, no doubt, but is it justifiable? Not so sure.
Peter wrote:
How will Norway detect the USSR invading?
When hordes of Swedes and Fins come running and screaming across the border 
Lots of military radars around, and they are continuously being modernized. In fact 8 new/refurbished facilities (big ones) are being built the next 5-10 years, and there are several mobile units. + there are 3 NATO AWACS at ENOL, and Orion/Poseidon to detect/destroy submarines.
I don’t think detecting a USSR invasion should be a problem (I guess you mean Russian 
) It’s bigger problem what to do with it, if detected
Previously, maybe 20-30 years ago, there were a whole bunch of radars everywhere, some military, some run by the ATC, but all of them used by both. But I guess, the military needs have departed from the civilian needs to such a degree that this don’t make much sense anymore? From 2025 all these radars are gone. ATC will exclusively be SSR, WAM and ADS-B. I would think ATC can use the military radars when needed? but to what purpose should that be? I don’t know.
Googling this stuff doesn’t give much results at all, mysteriously little, it’s all done rather low key. I think the TMA of ENVA is actually WAM/SSR only today, but I don’t know for sure. I know the ATC is in the middle of the process of putting up hundreds of WAM units. But where? and what do they look like? When entering Værnes TMA, people still say Værnes radar (although I usually say Værnes approach). There is a primary radar here, a military one. It’s 20 years since it was rebuilt to remote operation. There are no people there. Do the ATC ever use it? what for, when they have SSR and WAM and ADS-B ? It can of course be used to detect non transponding aircraft, and maybe the tower have a screen displaying it, but do they use it for anything?
This WAM is also a bit of a puzzle. Why WAM when there is ADS-B ? WAM is only 3 or more detectors/receivers triangulating signals from Modes S transponders (also mode C? don’t think so?) In the North Sea, all helicopter traffic there is ADS-B, no WAM at all. Maybe it is terrain. WAM can be built covering entire valleys, and included into a bigger network. ADS-B would not work in that valley without a separate ADS-B receivers. But I mean one ADS-B receiver instead of 4-5 WAM receivers. It doesn’t make sense. ADS-B is 100% dependent on GPS, WAM is not (it is today as I understand, but that is more practicalities, it doesn’t need to be).
This is an interesting perspective on Flying in the US versus Europe.
I wonder if @hypoxiacub is still around.
Yes, what he says is so true. Thanks.
