Does anyone remember Egypt flight 990 out of Los Angeles?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/16/duncancampbell
http://www.ibtimes.com/pilot-suicide-when-its-captain-who-crashes-plane-1519756
http://news.aviation-safety.net/2013/12/22/list-of-aircraft-accidents-caused-by-pilot-suicide/
The bottom line is that countries that have no GA or a history of GA will always have a hard time filling their cockpits with qualified individuals. Especially now when they are scrimping on everything to compete with the lowest cost carriers. As one of the articles mentions in the US if you have any history of mental illness you cant get a medical. Now we have had GA pilot suicides but as far as I know none involved air carriers. One incident comes to mind when a single engine plane rammed the IRS building in Fla.
“As one of the articles mentions in the US if you have any history of mental illness you cant get a medical” – if the medical examiner knows about it that is…
History of GA is irrelevant. Flying cheques around the country solo at night hardly says anything about one’s mental fitness…
Does anyone remember Egypt flight 990 out of Los Angeles?
Not to mention Helios Airways 522. The flight attendant with a CPL had to force his way into the cockpit which took a long time. Even if he was not rated on the aircraft, the outcome could have been very different if he had gained access to the cockpit immediately.
Nobbi,
put your pilot´s had on the shelf for a moment and look at it from the eye of the passenger or flight attendant.
Particularly flight attendants have gone through a totally traumatic experience yesterday. All of them, no matter where they are or who they work for. All of them had to imagine a situation where they stand in front of a closed door, knowing what is happening, and not be able to do anything about it. Knowing that one of the crew members you drove to work with this morning, whom you´ve shared beers with, whom you might have known on and off for a while, and moreover is one of the people you have trusted for all your professional life to PROTECT you and to take you to your destination safely is about to kill you and everyone else on board. Trust me, if you think it through, it is not a pretty experience.
The flying public has had a huge trust in pilots as well. They have mostly ignored the fact that it has happened before because it was “far away” and because with an airline “they would not fly with anyhow”. Now, it has come home to them. One of Europe´s leading carriers on a flight between two European cities which most people step on without even thinking.
What this guy has done has undermined the general trust which allows the general public to step on an airplane and it has undermined the general trust airline workers have to have towards their pilots. In that sense, it is even worse than 9-11 for the people involved.
So if you have a better idea what to do than to do the only bit which can be done right now, has the obvious merit of attacking the very underlying problem why both LAM and German Wings suicides did succeed, then I and many aviation experts today would like to hear about it.
Many of us have been deeply concerned to see a loved one go on a flight the next several days, in fact, had this step not been taken, I think we would have seen a lot of flight attendants justifyably refuse to board a plane.
Apart from that, I honestly trust our FA´s a lot more to be able to open the door and get help in such a case than I would trust yet another arbitrary judgement panel to decide the fate of every single pilot on the base if he is a suicide risk or not, In fact, I think that this kind of pressure against pilots may well contribute to such outcomes.
I am with nobbi on this one. For a pilot it does take much less to bring down an aircraft than to lock out the other crewmembers from the cockpit. You can do that easily with the other pilot (or flight attendant) sitting right next to you. All you need is access to the rudder pedals (AA587 for example). Putting another crewmember in an unoccupied pilot seat is just a measure to calm down the public opinion, nothing else. It does not improve flight safety the least bit as the next suicidal pilot will certainly demonstrate to the world.
Shorrick…..“History of GA is irrelevant. Flying cheques around the country solo at night hardly says anything about one’s mental fitness…”
Quite true but it does say something about their piloting skills. As in Air France FLT 447.
However that is not the GA Im referring to. Im referring to the culture of a country that has GA from which the airlines can draw recruits.
In the past a lot of controllers, briefers and FAA personnel had some GA aviation background understanding in the US. Sadly Ive noticed that since Reagan eliminated the controllers union back in the day a lot of the new hires dont know a rudder from an elevator. A job is a job. For example, I sent a 747 thru that weather why does that 210 insist on deviating?
What next….. read the transcript of the Egypt Air flight. There you had two guys in the front seat and it still crashed.
No the answer is better mental health awareness and repeated examinations because things do change. Thats referring to their 6 month exams. I also think regarding mental health, practitioners that are private need to submit info to medical department of the FAA or to DOT if they have a patient whose occupation is ferrying around paying passengers because that individual will not be forthcoming with this information if they know their flying/driving career is on the line.
What this guy has done has undermined the general trust which allows the general public to step on an airplane and it has undermined the general trust airline workers have to have towards their pilots. In that sense, it is even worse than 9-11 for the people involved.
I agree.
There is a huge amount of trust among the population, with people scared of flying (and totally scared of GA flying) willing to climb into the aluminium tube purely because the two pilots up front look so reassuring, have reassuring voices and (often in the past, anyway) have reassuringly grey hair. IMHO, everything has changed now, because this was a mainstream European airline.
OK; most people have no choice but to fly on holidays etc but this is sure to remove a % of their traffic. And suicides get copied, so there will be more of the same.
All you need is access to the rudder pedals
It is not assured though… it might just fail to break off the VS and then the other pilot is going to whack you in the head, and you will end up locked up for ever.
I also think regarding mental health, practitioners that are private need to submit info to medical department of the FAA or to DOT if they have a patient whose occupation is ferrying around paying passengers because that individual will not be forthcoming with this information if they know their flying/driving career is on the line.
That is really difficult though. Here in the UK, if you have a firearms license (even for a 30ft-lb air rifle!) a policeman visits every 5 years and talks to you… casually… very casually. He is not a 20 year old “Special” who has just come off the crash course on sarcasm. He is nearer to 60. If you got divorced, he asks (very very obliquely) if you want to shoot your ex. And this is for an air rifle… He will then interview the referees and ask them if you ever talked about shooting your ex. The UK has had two major mass shootings and IIRC both were done by men who lived with their mums at an age which ought to have been “unusual”. So, a ban on all men who are over [insert a figure] and live with their mum would probably be very effective as psychological screening. It’s not going to happen…
Without demand for outdated stuff like flying cheques around demand for airframes goes down, the volumes of airframes built go down,, the number of jobs goes down, the number of pilots goes down, and everyone’s general awareness of GA as well. The only thing that goes up is the airframe price.
While airline pilot numbers have remained steady, private and commercial pilots numbers have gone down by 30% in 25 years.
Without a momentous change, sticking to 1950es “we always did it this way” methods the writing is pretty much on the wall in bold neon flashing capitals.
