Malibuflyer wrote:
If the original owner did not pay the VAT he did not import the plane.
By that definition, importation is a matter of if the owner wishes to import it or not!
I don’t believe that’s the case. Importation is a matter of fact. The aircraft is imported or it isn’t. If it’s imported, then the tax is due. If it’s not imported, then no tax is due.
It’s not a case that the owner can choose to pay the tax, and then consider it imported. There only a few taxes that work that way, and VAT isn’t one of them.
dublinpilot wrote:
Malibuflyer wrote: If the original owner did not pay the VAT he did not import the plane.By that definition, importation is a matter of if the owner wishes to import it or not!
I don’t believe that’s the case. Importation is a matter of fact. The aircraft is imported or it isn’t. If it’s imported, then the tax is due. If it’s not imported, then no tax is due.
It’s not a case that the owner can choose to pay the tax, and then consider it imported. There only a few taxes that work that way, and VAT isn’t one of them.
@dublinpilot, if that is the case, then the new owner could be liable for the VAT + penalties + interest. Ouch!
It’s clear the the tax authorities can seize the aircraft if the VAT was not paid at the point of importation. There are only limited circumstances where goods can enter the EU without payment of VAT. There are even fewer circumstances where the owner is not a business and is resident in the EU.
Certainly the owner at the time of import is liable for the VAT, interest and penalties if they don’t pay the VAT on importation.
Certainly the goods can be seized if the VAT position isn’t corrected, even if they have been sold to a subsequent buyer.
The part that isn’t 100% clear to me is if the interest and penalties need to be paid before the aircraft is released, or just the VAT. It’s possible that the tax authorities would release the aircraft to the new owner on payment of the tax and pursue the original owner for the interest and penalties. But I can’t say if that’s likely or not. Probably more likely in the case of an innocent subsequent buyer who cooperated fully with the investigation and a decent tax inspector (which at least in Ireland most, but not all, are).
boscomantico wrote:
Is a plane like this „EU VAT paid“?
I’m having a hard time figuring it out to be honest. We are not the first European owners and although records for the plane itself is complete, “bureaucratic” paperwork is scarce.
[ posts moved to existing aircraft VAT thread – above is about one for sale in Norway ]
You’d need to set aside a lot more than 20%.
If VAT is really owed, then there is interest an penalties on top of that. If the debt was owed a long time ago, or the evasion was deliberate, it could end up being multiples of the actual tax.
This is obviously totally country dependent, and even within a country it will vary over time (for example the UK HMRC have only in recent years published clear guidelines on penalties) but I think it is fair to say that if there has been no deliberate element then only the VAT owed gets collected. At the other end of the scale, document forgery gets a different treatment, and possibly a prosecution 
We are not the first European owners and although records for the plane itself is complete, “bureaucratic” paperwork is scarce.
How long has Norway had a VAT system?
With Switzerland, this must be well known. How does a Swiss owner ever sell his plane to a non Swiss buyer?
See here for some info. @chflyer may know the answer.
My money would be on Norway and Switzerland being fully in the EU VAT system. After all, both are believed to be EU members in all but name, and both pay money to Brussels to get the privileges without the “domestic political” difficulty of joining.
Peter wrote:
My money would be on Norway and Switzerland being fully in the EU VAT system. After all, both are believed to be EU members in all but name, and both pay money to Brussels to get the privileges without the “domestic political” difficulty of joining.
Neither of them is. The only non-EU areas included in the EU VAT system are Monaco and the British military bases on Cyprus.
Concrete evidence: Last year I bought a force feedback yoke from Brunner in Switzerland. The sale was without VAT but I had to pay VAT to customs in Sweden.
With Switzerland, this must be well known. How does a Swiss owner ever sell his plane to a non Swiss buyer?
Very simple – the non Swiss buyer gets to pay VAT in his home country.
My money would be on Norway and Switzerland being fully in the EU VAT system. After all, both are believed to be EU members in all but name, and both pay money to Brussels to get the privileges without the “domestic political” difficulty of joining.
I am not quite sure about what money you refer to (the bulk of the money “paid to Brussels” goes to transport infrastructure projects around the border that we need to optimise our network), and with regard to privileges, if anything – considering we have walked out of negotiating a framework agreement with the EU – they will start diminishing as the bilateral accords that govern them are starting to run out.
Concrete evidence: Last year I bought a force feedback yoke from Brunner in Switzerland. The sale was without VAT but I had to pay VAT to customs in Sweden.
My observation would be:
This happens if somebody in the EU gives you a VAT number (which enables a VAT-free sale) which turns out to be bogus. This happens occassionally, though rarely in the B2B sphere I am in.It is a while since I last set up a new customer on our accounts system from NO or CH but IIRC NO ones give a VAT number while CH ones don’t.
the non Swiss buyer gets to pay VAT in his home country.
That would be the case anyway if the plane was not “VAT paid” at the point of importation, to anywhere.
Does CH not have any kind of VAT?
Peter wrote:
You, not being a VAT registered individual or corporte body, can’t produce a VAT number, so will be charged VAT, within the EU
Exactly. So I was not charged VAT in Switzerland as the goods were exported, but I was charged VAT when the goods were imported in Sweden. Which means that Switzerland is not part of the EU VAT area.
I have bought last year a used aircraft, which was imported 2008 from the US via Denmark into the EU. I have the original custom declaration but there is no value inserted. Can you help me, finding out, if the taxation was properly done?
Thanks
