That’s two different things, right … “Touching the controls” while the PIC flies, or actively flying the airplane.
No, that is non-sense. Manipulating the controls is acting as a pilot. Unlicensed passengers cannot act as pilot, at least i.a.w. UK ANO. Unless there is flight training involved, which would include a flight training AOC, and an instructor with a FI rating.
The fact that you are PIC means that you carry the authority, however you still need a pilot to fly the plane. Not a passenger.
You can’t let passengers smoke on your aircraft either, even though you are PIC and you are responsible…
EASA regulations say in Article 7
Except when under training, a person may only act as a pilot if he
or she holds a licence and a medical certificate appropriate to the
operation to be performed.
Unless there is flight training involved, which would include a flight training AOC, and an instructor with a FI rating.
I agree re the FI rating, but flight training does not need an AOC (in the UK and most other countries).
I did not write “manipulating the controls”. I wrote “touching the controls” while the PIC flies, like it’s sometimes done for a picture.
Letting the passenger fly the airplane is, od course, illegal.
But i think the discussion is unnecessary. We all here know how to handle this. I for one would not put not (many) of such clips on youtube.
@airborne_again : basically, most countries take the regulation and implement it into their own legal system so that it fits within the internal legal framework (and they have to, but there may already be existing overlapping domestic legislation) If they did not, the regulation would still have legal force and the Courts would have to comply with it. On the other hand, it is easier to deal with things within your own legal framework.
For the OP’s question, the PIC is ultimately responsible for crew, pax and cargo and the safe operation of the flight from doors closed to shutdown. It is unlikely that there would be any legal provision about a passenger being involved in any way, whether touching or manipulating the controls or operating the radio as they are simply not licensed to do so, so it is illegal. PUT is different and subject to different rules.
Autopilot is different from passenger as it should operate within certain parametres. A passenger might not, e.g. decide to abruptly bank due to traffic… which happens to be a departing Heathrow jet, em, not that I would know anything about that of course.
No, that is non-sense. Manipulating the controls is acting as a pilot.
That’s a far stretch. In a single pilot aircraft there is only one pilot, and he/she is pilot from start to landing. It is impossible for anyone else to act as a pilot in a legal sense, even if that other person is fully licensed.
I can’t either find anything in part nco about this, and where does that article 7 come from?
In Norway this is certainly fully allowed. Ambulance helicopters (the small civilian ones) are operated with a crew of one pilot, one rescue man, and one medic (doctor usually). The rescue men sit in the right seat. They all have PPLH theory and are given sufficient training to fly and land the helicopter. They don’t have a license to operate the helicopter as PIC in any way. These small helicopters are single pilot operated.
It has always been like this. It is the PIC that is responsible for the entire flight, and the only requirement is that the PIC sits at the control during the entire flight in a single pilot aircraft. EASA and part NCO does not change this.
In a single pilot aircraft there is only one pilot, and he/she is pilot from start to landing. It is impossible for anyone else to act as a pilot in a legal sense, even if that other person is fully licensed.
An extremely good point IMHO. The LHS always remains the PIC.
Anyway, how many prosecutions have there been over the hundreds of massively incriminating Youtube videos?
LHS always remains the PIC.
Out if interest: do you have that somewhere in say, the FARs or the UK ANO?
Prosecution is one thing, liability in case of an incident/accident is another thing to consider.
Of course, all of us here are sensible enough to have a pax only touch the controls at a less critical phase in the flight, so the risk that something goes wrong is extremely low, basically nil. Well, maybe not nil. Here’s the pax flying, being filmed from behind by another pax. Bird smashing into the windscreen… PIC takes over, lands the plane.
Backseat pax has some nice video for Youtube. Insurance company sees it and says: damage not covered, because if the PIC would have been at the controls he would have been quick enough to avoid the bird..
Ha, life’s full of risks!
do you have that somewhere in say, the FARs or the UK ANO?
Sorry for ambiguity – the LHS is not the PIC necessarily. It can be the RHS of course. What I meant was that there can be only one PIC (in a single pilot aircraft) and unless he/she does something to explicitly hand over the control, nothing has changed.
I have never seen a reg which says it’s illegal for a non licensed person to touch the controls or even to fly the plane. The PIC is obviously still in charge.
life’s full of risks!
That’s why one would not put the video on youtube until the flight is successfully concluded. But I suppose one has no control over passengers doing it…
Hmm, this is what NCO.GEN.105 f) actually say:
(f) During flight, the pilot-in-command shall:
(1) except for balloons, keep his/her safety belt fastened while at his/her station; and
(2) remain at the controls of the aircraft at all times except if another pilot is taking the controls.
So there is an exception. PIC is well defined in terms of operations and responsibilities for a particular with a particular aircraft, but how is “pilot” defined? Remain at the controls is not the same as operating the controls . Pilot is not the same as PIC. My best definition of “pilot” is someone with a valid pilot license of some sort, but what about retired pilots?
Either way there is nothing in the regulations prohibiting a passenger operating the controls as long as the PIC is also at the controls. But, a passenger cannot “act as a pilot” (according to that Article 7, whatever that is). It doesn’t really matter, because according to part NCO. the PIC cannot leave his position (at the controls) unless, the passenger (right seat) actually is a pilot (whatever a pilot actually is, but since it is not defined it must mean any pilot capable of flying the aircraft, and therefore it is up to the PIC to decide if the other pilot is capable, because the PIC is in charge).
The easy way is often the best way, as a commercial slogan say. And this is how I have started reading these regulations. Reading them exactly as they are written is the only way I know how to, and if that results in me misinterpreting something that’s not my fault.
