Der grösste Lump im ganzen Land…. ist und bleibt der Denunziant!!!
YES. Very true. Surprisingly I struggle with the translation… “The worst scoundrel in the country will always be the informer” ?
Lots of them around, whereever you look.
Flyer59 wrote:
To report somebody to police (or LBA) is an absolute no-no in the society I lived in for my whole life. Germany has changed in that respect from WWII,
I hope you are right. Even though that change would have had to be more recent at least for the new states… there the high art of informing was practiced at least until 1989? The interesting thing is, whenever I discuss about that in Germany with my friends there, the first step is alway a massive denial… and then people come up with examples out of their own experience. Usually at the end of the evening, nobody is that sure anymore. BTW the organisations most named in such discussions are usually the “Ordnungsamt” where people seem to flock to denounce their neighbour´s little sins….
It is certainly so in Switzerland that people are very hesitant to go to the police… but the reason is not that they are any better but that they are scared of possible trouble they can have for themselfs. They do not trust the police generally and are afraid they might end up in some very unpleasant confrontations or even lawsuits if they inform.That is what keeps them, not the idea itself. Actually, the police does not care for such petty informers either, maybe that is why they sublty discourage such things.
That was a good therapy.
Certainly their obediance against the state has changed, even though it took a long time. The GDR was even worse in this terms and institutionalized informing even more than the Nazis did, at least if I believe some people who have seen both. And that did not end until 89… I think for people of our generation, that might even be the more recent reason people are more hesitant.
Which does not change a lot when it comes to internet posts. One needs to be careful what is posted.
A typical SEP is not approved for multicrew
That is also not true.
They are approved for a minimum flight crew of one. A notable difference.
The interesting thing is, whenever I discuss about that in Germany with my friends there, the first step is alway a massive denial
I am not into massive denials. It is my experience after beeing born in this country and having lived here for 55 years. Of course you cannot compare the DDR/GDR with “West Germany”.
Bosco: AFAIK only the pilot in the left seat can be the PIC, and the only exception is a FI/CRI. No?
Germany does have sonething to that effect in its national air law. Other vountries haven’t.
So what rule mandates that the pilot of an aircraft with dual controls must sit in the left hand seat? There is no such ridiculous rule in the US. Heck, there are airplanes that have tandem seating, do they have to keep to the left side of the seat (must one fly right cheek up?). Some of these aircraft are flown from the front seat while others are flown from the rear seat. Aircraft that only require a single pilot can also have a toilet. Do you really need examples? An aircraft that is certified for single pilot operation may have more than one “crew member station” where the pilot may perform all their duties if the aircraft is equipped with dual controls. Note the exception to the regulation that requires flight crew members remain at their crewmember station.
Sec. 91.105 Flight crew members at stations.
(a) During takeoff and landing, and while en route, each required flight crew member shall—
(1) Be at the crewmember station unless the absence is necessary to perform duties in connection with the operation of the aircraft or in connection with physiological needs; and
(2) Keep the safety belt fastened while at the crewmember station.
(b) Each required flight crewmember of a U.S.-registered civil aircraft shall, during takeoff and landing, keep his or her shoulder harness fastened while at his or her assigned duty station. This paragraph does not apply if—
(1) The seat at the crewmember’s station is not equipped with a shoulder harness; or
(2) The crewmember would be unable to perform required duties with the shoulder harness fastened.
What all this debate boils down to is whether there is any rule that says the Commander of the aircraft (who definitely must have a licence etc, and is responsible for the conduct of the flight) is the only person who can manipulate the controls.
Not every legal aspect in aviation is clear cut beyond interpretation. Is that bad? I am not sure it is productive always to compel a definite answer regarding legality. The question about passengers handling the aircraft I regard as a well-established grey area, and I suspect it is best left like that.
“And you can’t change PIC during the flight.”
Airborne_Again, this is the same kind of discussion, and another grey area in my view. I am convinced that it is not explicitly stated anywhere that the PIC must be the same during the whole flight, but you and some other pilots I know still think it is illegal to change. Most people interprets when reading the rules, even the ones claiming not to.
Pilots fly together and take turns being the PIC. Passengers occasionally try what is like to handle an aeroplane. Airplanes do not seem to crash because of that. If questions about legality are elevated high enough that the authorities feel pressed to make a statement, I fear things will change for the more restrictive.
Yankee wrote:
So what rule mandates that the pilot of an aircraft with dual controls must sit in the left hand seat?
There is no such rule…
For some aircraft the POH dictates that the PIC has to sit left, but that is due to cockpit layout. If I remember correctly, the Katana DA20 may not be flown from the RHS because you can’t reach the fuel switch from that position.
As a member of a flying syndicate with an “above average visibility”, I get criticized every now and then.
I’m open to criticism because I can learn from it. But sometimes it just doesn’t make sense.
For example: I have been told that I should not be too open about flying above FL100 with oxygen 
Regarding the legal aspect of having a PAX at the flight controls: I’m going to ask the Dutch CAA for a definite answer.
There’s a Dutch Foundation that flies with ill/handicapped children and they let the kids have a go at the flight controls.
There are videos of it on the internet. They do it for a good cause, so that might be different ;-)
lenthamen wrote:
There is no such rule…
Apparently there is in Germany. That has been discussed before on EuroGA, including quotes from the legal text. But I have never heard of such a rule in any other country.
huv wrote:
Pilots fly together and take turns being the PIC. Passengers occasionally try what is like to handle an aeroplane. Airplanes do not seem to crash because of that. If questions about legality are elevated high enough that the authorities feel pressed to make a statement, I fear things will change for the more restrictive.
I’m not arguing against that. I’m simply stating what the rules say as I understand them. I personally wouldn’t hesitate to let a passenger have a go at the controls in the right circumstances.
