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Are new planes more expensive relative to incomes?

The discussion about “yesterdays money” vs “today’s money” is often difficult without real life data and comparisons. That is why quite a few of the above mentioned numbers are interesting. Also in my experience numbers from today have little if anything to do with numbers of the 1980ties or 70ties.

Out of memory, I did my PPL for about CHF 9000.- in 1983 using a fleet of Cessna 150ties and then bought my own for CHF 7000.- I invested some 20k into avionics over the years and resold the plane in 2000 for 15 k, a net loss of about half of my investment. My take home salary at the time I did my PPL was about 2500.- CHF after tax. and about twice that when I sold out in 2000. I lived in a flat which cost me 800 CHF/month then (single room) and 1300 CHF later (3 room). Money was tight but livable.

The main thing I notice is that while the numbers in take home salary change over the years and with age and experience, the buying force does not. I still work paycheck to paycheck, I still have the same concerns whether I can pay this or that, while I am fairly comfortable I am by no means secure. 1-2 salaries missing would throw me into a massive financial crisis. 2 years of missing the second income at home (due to Covid) was very noticable.

However, these numbers have not risen in any kind of relation to what happened to the new airplane market. The numbers for new airplanes are simply insane and have led to a decline in certified GA which imho is irrecoverable.

In the used market, it is less so, even though at the moment it is also a situation where prices are very high indeed. Comparing with the phase post 2008 to about 2019, prices have risen to a pre- 2008 level and beyond. My guess is they will normalize in the next two years somewhere in between, but right now, buying is impossible for many people, while it was a real possibility also for low wage employees before 2019.

I see the same in housing and other goods. House prices are insane, rental prices even worse. Personally I could not afford to rent a 3 room flat right now. No way, prices are in the 2500 CHF or more per month in our area. Small 100m2 1960 style houses are going for 1.5 to 2 million, where they went for 400-500k in 2000. What this does to society is divide it more and more and what it does to GA is deny access to a sizable part of interested candidates and rise opposition by envy and frustration to a new height.

I have no clue where this is going. People talk of bubbles in housing and GA, so far prices are still rising and rising. In the end I suppose what this will mean is that the money itself devaluates, as you can’t buy anything meaningful even with amounts which used to be insane proposition to most people. 1 million used to be a fairy tale sum for the general population, nowadays it won’t buy you a terraced 3 room house in any large city. I just hope things don’t go the way they did in the 1920ties where a beer cost 10 million marks in Germany. But who knows.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 01 Feb 08:59
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

To continue with cars, according to this book a 1933 luxury Renault Nervastella cost 45,000 francs, and a two seat training aircraft about the same (60,000F minus government subsidy). Contemporary advertising often associated cars and aero engines from the same manufacturer, to the benefit of both sides of the business.

For context, in early 1930s France a postman or young teacher earned 11-12k per annum, and a university professor or army colonel 48-53k (rounded; source, which includes some cost of living figures).

Of course, this is only the purchase price; I don’t know how running costs between a car and a plane compared 90 years ago. The same book quotes 1920s pilots complaining about maintenance bills and regulatory incompetance, so little has changed

The labour hours required for production has decreased with machinery, electricity, and automation, but conversely labour costs per hour have risen. GA manufacturing hasn’t kept up with this, so will only get proportionately more expensive.

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

I just recalculated and my pay as an engineering employee since 1988 has now risen at the average rate of 6.2% per year, versus 7% for the same calculation in 2015, or whenever I posted in this thread long ago. This is the problem with getting older, your pay raises flatten a little on a percentage basis, but the good side is that by now they are paying you well regardless and have been doing so for quite a while, and you have much greater discretionary income. Plus the house rental market is strong and that’s where I put some fraction of the paychecks. The monthly cost of owning my plane is not significant to me in relation to the benefits although I will say I’m glad I bought and paid for my plane pre-COVID, before price inflation kicked in.

Now I have to decide whether I want to spend $60K-ish to complete my long term plan of renovations on a plane that will then be worth about that amount, not more, and has nothing much wrong with it as it sits. ‘Rich people’s’ problems, as they say

I still don’t care at all how much new planes cost. There is nothing I would buy new in relation to what I could buy used for less money, just as that was the case in 2015.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 13 May 15:14
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