Airborne_Again wrote:
For once, I agree with the way you put it!
These two have agreed. The forum can be closed now since there’s nothing left to achieve.
Silvaire wrote:
except for entropy,
Entropy is a cool, but often a very misunderstood concept 
Silvaire wrote:
European GA specifically by my observation includes some diehard participants operating under tremendous political and financial/tax pressure, within an international system that provides some utility despite being vastly over controlled.
I don’t agree, but let’s assume that’s the case. Despite this, the actual situation regarding fuel is completely open ended. A Rotax engine will run on just about any kind of gasoline in existence, and so will ULPower. An Austro will run on any kind of diesel or jet fuel in existence. Fuel for both are readily available. If it’s such a genius thing to operate an aircraft on any kind of fuel, is another matter. The problem is US made 1950 technology engines exclusively. Translate that to cars, and the future of fuel would be decided by what works in a 1955 Chevrolet. A car that is by now completely outnumbered by “Rotax powered cars” (or aircraft). This is how silly the situation is.
Obviously what the aviation authorities would have wanted, is a GA fleet that would transition towards Jet fuel. This is happening, but with sub optimal solutions and/or at snail speed. DeltaHawk is interesting, but will it ever truly grow wings? Even so, there are a bunch of GA aircraft operating on jet fuel, and they have no fuel problems whatsoever. Jet fuel/diesel would be so much simpler for everyone, and for many reasons.
Fuel isn’t a problem itself, it’s more of a symptom. The main factor is the state of GA. It’s 80-90% a recreational activity. Commercial GA has since long moved to jet fuel, mostly in the form of turbines, fully in line with the aviation authorities wishes (there are exception of course). Then comes the issue of aviation authorities regulating recreational activity. Is that something they should do at all? perhaps a little bit, but only in obvious safety aspects. Encouraging any particular fuel would be a silly thing for them to do, unless it is jet fuel. The only thing today would be CO2 emissions. For all MOGAS that is already taken care of. For all diesel and jet that is also taken care of. It’s taken care of in the form of biofuel. For AVGAS, nothing.
Even so, there are a bunch of GA aircraft operating on jet fuel, and they have no fuel problems whatsoever. Jet fuel/diesel would be so much simpler for everyone, and for many reasons.
It’s simpler for the single fuel US Army, which funded the development of the current diesels, and the domestically built ones that will replace them, and flies them more than anybody else at great expense. It’s not simpler for the private owner with a budget who flies 50 hrs a year, can maintain his Avgas powered engine easily and buy fuel for it at every almost airport, thousands of them, without the chaos that’s taken hold in European GA fuel supply.
Translate that to cars, and the future of fuel would be decided by what works in a 1955 Chevrolet.
It’s a pretty good analogy because the small block Chevy V8 (SBC) that was introduced in the ‘55 Chevy is likely the most successful engine ever for those who need inexpensive, practical power – up to 755 HP in production form, sold to regular people, after 65 years in production. Over 100 million of them were produced and like the eminently practical Lycomng, they just keep going for individual owners who will be building them and running them in the cars they actually enjoy owning for the foreseeable future.
Silvaire wrote:
55 Chevy is likely the most successful engine ever for those who need inexpensive, practical power
Not in Europe
Silvaire wrote:
like the eminently practical Lycomng
An engine that breaks down when running on “modern” fuel. That’s not eminently practical. That is only old. Very old.
An engine that breaks down when running on “modern” fuel
Not sure what you’re implying @LeSving…
I’ve had different airplanes which I mostly ran on Mogas, powered either by Contis or Lycos, and none of them engine broke down. My present steed has now >1’000hrs on Mogas and car gas alone, and luckily seems more than happy with that
Most of the homebuilts flying around here on non-Rotax engines also use Mogas, as well as a good proportion of the certified stuff.
None of those “breaks down” due to “modern” fuel, if unleaded gas is what you meant.
My certified aircraft and its O-320 (as mentioned) ran on E0 91 AKI car fuel for a couple of decades before I bought it, with FAA approval.
OK, so no problem then, and this G100UL is a waste of time and money
Case closed.
If you’d prefer to run (stinky ) unleaded, E0 car fuel is going the way of the Dodo Bird. @Dan do you see this as an issue for your operations?
Do you think the German style ‘Mogas’ (by which I mean E0 car fuel sold at airports) will still be available at airports (Europe-wide) when E0 is no longer available at car fuel stations near airports in all or most European countries? I suppose it’s possible but it doesn’t seem a solid bet to me.
Or if E0 becomes unavailable to you will you then run E10 car fuel in your Lycoming? Or 100LL Avgas? Or what? As mentioned, I wouldn’t personally run gasoline with alcohol in any plane, with any engine, certified or experimental. It isn’t allowed under airframe STCs. Have you run it successfully in your RV?
A friend flew his C85 Continental with E10 and other than the storage and smell issues it idled poorly due to lean mixture. Not confidence inspiring. We know given the STC for his airframe type that there are no issues with E0, and he found it would run OK on a 50/50 mixture of E10 and 100LL. But there was no point in it, especially with local 91 AKA car fuel prices at the pump comparable to 100LL.
LeSving wrote:
G100UL is a waste of time and money
Mostly yes 
We have been thru this before, but Lyco (and Conti) have had most of their engines approved for Mogas, since many years, as per the SI Specified Fuels for Spark-Ignited Gasoline Aircraft Engine Models
An excerpt containing their most common engines:
