Ramp checks are those that are performed by FAA Safety Inspectors.
Maybe in the US, but this is a European forum and the thread is clearly about the situation in Europe.
In Europe, the forces conducting “ramp checks” (i.e. checks concerning compliance with aviation regulations) are conducted by forces with very differing names. And they are obviously entitled to also check aircraft under foreign registrations.
So, the question is really how well these “foreign” forces conduct checks on third country aircraft and their crews. It’s a difficult task, because, if they did their job properly, they would have check both certain things regulated by the country of aircraft registration (mainly: licensing) as well as certain things regulated by the country flying in (operational rules, Part-NCO for example), but without “overstepping”, i.e. checking
compliance with rules that don’t apply to that aircraft. A very difficult thing that is not done after a quick “read” of the rules, and not even after a “briefing” by the FAA.
That’s why we see so much “overstepping” in ramp checks, particularly on third country aircraft around here.
What do you mean “doing their job properly” Boscomantico ?
A SAFA check or smaller check on single piston aircraft has a standard checklist form from the Inspector which includes licencing checks relating to State of Registration of the Aircraft. It doesn’t seem like you have ever been checked then. You as PIC also have to sign the form after the check and get to keep a copy. If you don’t agree with it then legally you are obliged not to sign it.
Part NCO isn’t even valid until August 2016 and the licensing part is still not properly sorted.
Just because you chose to pay money for another IR licence and training in addition to the one you hold for your aircraft state of registry doesn’t mean that eveyone affected is automatically going to do the same. The rules on conduct of SAFA or any other smaller non EU airframe check have been posted and are fully available for free on the Internet. You are quite within your human rights to tell an Inspector to get lost should they overstep the mark and mandate. If you read the SAFA training regs they even take airline cabin crew members and train them to become Inspectors (suppose they could make you a cuppa before the check :-) So, would you want someone like that ordering you around your expensive aircraft, I think not !
[edited to remove unnecessary aggression – Peter]
Ok, I apologise for saying ‘wind your neck in’ about NCO Aug 2016 to Boscomantico :-)
Peter wrote :
AFAIK no country in Europe does that – probably because it needs a lot of specialist knowledge about aviation regulations e.g. airframe and component certification, pilot licensing, and on non-CofA types you get another can of worms to do with limitations on residence on which the regs are so hard to find that even most owners are not aware of them
I have actually been ramp checked at my local airfield (very small uncontrolled, yet close to the CH border) on several occasions in F-reg planes (aeroclub planes). Those checks are done by the Gendarmerie Nationale’s Air division by inspectors who are very well aware of DGAC regulations and will check paperwork though the “real purpose”of the ramp check is likely to be of an entirely different nature.
I am a 200+ hour pilot and have been ramp checked at LFHN twice – I am also not alone.
Edit – they also show up by helicopter
I apologise
What a lovely statement about EuroGA & Phobos. On most forums people while just blindly argue that they are right and blow up an argument. It’s so nice to see people able to step back and apologise and move on. Thanks guys for making this such a nice place :)
Can I ask what a SAFA inspection is? Is it an inspection by the police or by the national CAA?
I’ve only ever been inspected once (at Rennes by the Gendarmerie-local police). They had a checklist of documents that they wanted to see, and copy down details from such as dates etc. But didn’t appear very knowledgable about what they were doing, and to be frank, I’m sure I could have spun them a story if needed.
Are the SAFA checks relevant to GA? I don’t know either way. I’ve seen a SAFA form some years ago, as used by the UK DfT for what was obviously airline inspections, but it dodn’t seem applicable. Edit: Just found it:
What the French are now doing seems much more focused, especially with the briefing packs addressing areas of deficiencies well known in GA (the two radio licenses for example).
If the FAA inspectors were doing it in Europe, and I don’t recollect anybody reporting that in GA (other than inspections of IAs and DARs which I have seen personally and close-up) they would need to play by the same rules as in the USA i.e. they have limited and well defined rights. From vague memory, they can inspect your aircraft but they have to give you notice. Well, obviously, since they can’t break in in your absence unless they have a warrant which they won’t get unless they suspect drugs etc. The US AOPA mag is good reading on that stuff.
I don’t think European law has such precise provisions for inspectors’ rights, with and without the presence of the person with the keys. In non-aviation contexts, random searches are mostly illegal and most things “with a reason” need a search warrant, but this is different. Even with cars, a policeman has an unlimited ability to do absolutely anything he wants (in the UK the usual process starts with saying “Sir, you were not driving straight”). In reality, a policeman (who will be armed in most countries, so the intimidation factor is massive) can do what he likes and if you argue with him you will have balls big enough to touch the ground.
they also show up by helicopter
Yes – a top end twin turbine job, estimated operating cost €3000/hr.
Yes, absolutely they are. Just ask anyone for example at Biggin Hill in GA (or Cannes etc). Yes, that SAFA form looks familiar that you posted.
Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft (SAFA)
Directive 2004/36/EC on the safety of third-country aircraft using Community airports (the so-called ‘SAFA Directive’) was published on 30 April 2004 , creating a legal obligation upon EU Member States to perform ramp inspections upon third country aircraft landing at their airports. This is the basic legal instrument underpinning what is known as the EC SAFA programme.
As provided under Regulation (EC) No 768/2006 , responsibility for the management and further development of the EC SAFA programme falls upon the European Commission assisted by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) .
Apart from the EU-28, a further 18 states – all members of ECAC (the European Civil Aviation Conference) – also participate voluntarily in the programme via specific ‘SAFA’ Working Arrangements concluded with EASA, giving the programme a truly pan-European dimension.
I have been flying in the US for 47 years and have never been ramp checked by the FAA.
