I am puzzled as to where the UK is going to find this “expertise”. Not in the present-day CAA, that’s for sure, unless they are all in hiding. They can’t even issue an IR without losing the paperwork for 9 months, IME.
Peter wrote:
“We will leave EASA,”
Absolutely did not see that one happening.
Really glad I didn’t put my money where my mouth was on this topic.
Thanks for all the updates, EuroGA is like a de facto news source for me. Very grateful for everyone who participates and informs those of us who would be on the outside looking out if it weren’t for all of you.
If UK leaves EASA, what effect will that have on the non ICAO compliant licenses like the LAPL and BIR? Can/will these licenses be recognized in UK airspace after leaving EASA?
@Peter asks where the CAA are going to find the expertise. The answer appears to be from the 8 million people that Priti Patel reckons are sitting around doing nothing.
So may I use this forum to put in a good word for an ex Fleet Air Arm ATC friend.
He is 85 but still has all his mental faculties but could only work part time due to his need for regular cancer treatment.
Astonishing. Seeing that there is ample precedent where non-EU countries are EASA Members I did not expect this.
It may open opportunities but also massive risks for e.g. the UK airplane inustry as far as it still exists… I would expect that this may well be the end for Britain’s contribution with Airbus for starters.
It may open opportunities if Britain became a safe haven for registration such as M- or 2- reg, but I don’t see that happen, as the Eu in retribution will almost certainly make darn sure that UK licenses and products will be handled similar as e.g. South African or Russian products and have to still undergo full EASA certification as well as flight crews will need double licenses to operate in Europe at all. I also reckon that G-Reg airplanes will face restrictions within EASA airspace similar to other third party registrations.
British AOC holders also will most probably loose the right to fly within the EU due to cabotage issues, not directly connected to EASA but also a huge issue.
It will be a very interesting development to see if any country within Europe’s geographical borders can exist like this for long. Given that the EU will wage whatever economical warfare they can get away with to create an example for other countries thinking of leaving, the meaning of an island nation will become quite real again.
We will leave EASA
Absolutely did not see that one happening.
Sorry for adding oil to the fire, but in my view this was the logical consequence of Brexit. Not accepting EU jurisdiction means not remaining part of EU authorities…
Seeing that there is ample precedent where non-EU countries are EASA Members I did not expect this.
The other “full members” of EASA, including Switzerland, accept EU jurisdiction, hence the situation is a bit different to the UK after leaving the EU. This is not to be mixed with these associated members, or however they are called, where there are just some sort of cooperation in specific areas (but not licencing, amongst others).
(…) as the Eu in retribution will almost certainly make darn sure that UK licenses and products will be handled similar as e.g. South African or Russian products (…).
Of course. Why should there be a difference to other ICAO-licences?
Very interesting news, I must admit I did not think it would happen, but am quite pleased by it.
It gives a great opportunity to do things more sensibly, whether that will be the case is another matter. But it’ll be interesting to see where it goes.
Much as Nissan continues to invest in new model production in Sunderland despite all the previous threats, I suspect much of the aviation manufacturing will continue on.
Clearly the UK has decided that Brussels is attaching too big a price tag to EASA membership to make it worth having that in the negotiating pot.
There are bigger fish to fry…
It’s a bit like your soon to be ex wife telling you that you can have contact with the kids if you give her the house, your pension, your savings, pay the mortgage, pay her 25k a year (index linked), pay the school fees, pay for a substantial re-furnish of the house, always have another pilot in the plane if taking the kid(s) up, and cut off your balls. 21 years ago I settled on the first eight of those 
Most men can’t go as far as that and many lose contact as a result… so it is a matter of what matters to you and what you think you can afford without wrecking yourself.
And UK airlines have already sidestepped the main issues, with a few € million transferred to the numbered Swiss bank account of the Austrian CAA 
So they will be looking for some kind of treaty with Brussels on certification and FCL. This, wot a surprise, is what Brussels has been trying to do with the FAA since for ever and with very limited success, for many reasons not least because Brussels isn’t just one country and they all have to agree.
The UK (actually all the old JAA countries also) has for decades had treaties with the FAA and these have worked more or less ok. When EASA took over in 2003 they killed all these treaties, officially, but there was a lot of resistance to it, and from the FAA also which never saw Brussels as properly representing the other 28 or whatever. That’s why the FAA still lists them on there.
If the FAA can have a limited treaty with Brussels then so can the UK.
If UK leaves EASA, what effect will that have on the non ICAO compliant licenses like the LAPL and BIR? Can/will these licenses be recognized in UK airspace after leaving EASA?
The UK CAA has already stated they will accept EASA papers for two years post-brexit.
The other stuff is more complicated and willl depend on how things pan out in the coming years. Re the LAPL, its only benefit is the medical. That will no doubt matter to some people. Those who aren’t flying abroad can go on the NPPL and the PMD medical, but will need a Class 2 holder to sit in the RHS for trips abroad. They may also need an Annex 1 aircraft… That’s what I would do if I lost my medical(s), and I would buy an RV10, preferably one built by somebody who got the rivets in the right way round.. Re the BIR, god knows what will happen with that… way too early to say… the benefit over the CB IR is likely to be marginal in reality and highly dependent on individual circumstances.
MikeWhiskey wrote:
Why should there be a difference to other ICAO-licences?
Well, in the interview the minister said:
Outside of EASA membership, the UK will seek mutual recognition of certifications in bilateral agreements with other countries and blocs
Seeing that this does not quite work yet even with FAA licenses e.t.c. what motivation should EU have to grant this to the UK?
In order to stay competitive on the European market most organisations will need to keep EASA certifcation going as a third country organisation or restrict themselfs to the home market alone. Yes, that can be a chance, but it is also a restriction.
This is fabulous news for GA in Europe.
Without the pathetic UK dragging on its leash like an Italian greyhound being taken for a walk in the rain, the Union will be able to forge ahead with much-needed new safety-critical legislation.
The new EASA ratings for aerobatics, glider-towing and mountain flying have been such a stunning success that we can look forward to new Europe-wide regulation of all remaining areas of concern; microlight maintenance “Part-M-ULM”, private aerodrome/strip security “Part-ASS”, over-size aircraft tyres “Part-OAT”, operation of light aircraft tugs “Part-LAT”, to mention but a few.
With 5g networking and Galileo we can have direct EuroControl operation/override of all GA aircraft, eliminating all pilot errors. So much to look forward to.
Meanwhile the poor old Brits will keep piling up the charred corpses of pilots who landed on a private grass strip without a Flugleiter or who failed to notify the local mayor.
