The key to any syndicate is ensuring the demographics and pilot experience of the group are compatible.
Flying the TBM (or any other HPA) for 50-80 hrs per year lends itself to a group operation, because if nothing else it will provide more exposure to flying the aeroplane. I know one group that works very well around a turbine and the members regular fly together.
Regarding training, most pilots transition to the TBM from single engine piston types (TB20, SR22, etc.) The main training difference between piston and turbine operations is not flying the aircraft around the circuit (which is no different to a complex single), but handling the management and decision making that comes with operating any HPA. Go-around training is always interesting! Multiple short-length sectors have far more training benefit than longer legs, as it allows consolidation of normal procedures and specifically engine management (with focus on engine motoring, identification of when a hot start, or hung start may occur, etc.)
Minimum entry requirements are 200 hrs TT and 70 hrs P1, which isn’t a lot, but as with any experience it depends in what type of environment this experience was gained. The average pilot will require 10-15 hours training if they have no prior experience in operating HPA.
For a pilot who forecasts flying only 50-80 hrs per year I would suggest that they budget for recurrent training at least twice a year, and expect to fly 25 hours with a mentor pilot, who should be at least rated on the applicable aeroplane.
Jonathan wrote:
Minimum entry requirements are 200 hrs TT and 70 hrs P1
IIRC, Socata requires 500 PIC/ P1 hours. What is then the current situation? Does the legal minimum (200 TT/ 70 PIC) option include mandatory mentoring (supervised operating experience)? I thought NAAs are supposed to respect manufacturer’s requirements in this (if they are higher, obviously).
Hi Martin,
Great question – and top marks for spotting the difference between the Operational Evaluation Board Report entry requirements & EASA Part FCL requirements.
The OEB minimum pilot experience requirements are not mandatory (although personally I support the minimum 500 hrs TT requirement) until 2017. So whilst it is recommended that you have 500 hours TT, in our Training Manual the minimum pre-entry requirements are:
That being said, we always advise that a pilot with the regulatory minimum will require more training. The minimum requirements allow entry into the course, once both the course is completed and skill test passed the National Aviation Authority will endorse the licence. The amount of mentoring from an experienced pilot simply comes down to insurance requirements which typically require anywhere from 25-100 hrs.
The most important point though, is regardless of a pilot’s experience, they need to be safe when operating the aeroplane as PIC.
@Jonathan Thank you. Personally, I don’t care much for time minimums (the less it looks like an actual minimum, the less I care for it), especially this one as AFAIK Socata is the only SET manufacturer with anything remotely close. And it’s 500 hours PIC, not TT (I think PF in MP ops counts too, not that it would be relevant in most cases). There is the option of SOE which is like mentoring, but there’s a limitation on the rating (i.e. it would be illegal to fly without appropriate supervision). You can have it removed after accruing specified amount of hours signed by CRI. It would seem more appropriate to me if Socata asked for that, say 50 hours at legal minimum, 25 at 500 total and 0 at 100 hours of PIC on HPA.
JasonC wrote:
More common Peter is a TQ exceedance which is really a non event (if a small one). Easy to happen in non-FADEC (ie all PT6) engines on takeoff as the airflow picks up and the TQ rises during the takeoff roll. There is a mechanical torque limiter which prevents something really bad. Setting that limiter involves deliberately going past the torque limit on the ground runs.
I flew with one person who seemed not to care and just moved it all the way, rolled and climbed at 104,1. Others are careful not to exceed 100 and make a big thing out of it. I find adjusting the throttle precisely difficult and I’d rather focus on other things when taking off. So, who is right? Is there a consequence of riding at the limiter in the TBM?
loco wrote:
I flew with one person who seemed not to care and just moved it all the way, rolled and climbed at 104,1. Others are careful not to exceed 100 and make a big thing out of it. I find adjusting the throttle precisely difficult and I’d rather focus on other things when taking off. So, who is right? Is there a consequence of riding at the limiter in the TBM?
It will be logged as an exceedance I assume on the 850. There may be mandatory inspections of the gearbox or prop. Yes you must overtorque to set the torque limiter but that is an approved service procedure on the ground and the exceedance can be cleared. That doesn’t mean it is approved for normal flight. I assume like the Meridian, the 850 has limitations for certain power settings/ITTs in certain phases of flight.
I find adjusting the throttle precisely difficult and I’d rather focus on other things when taking off.
Hence the invention of FADEC.
Is there a consequence of riding at the limiter in the TBM?
Resale value?
Thanks. Will try not to hit the limiter then.
Well I would suggest just reading POH or AFM and doing what it says. Maybe Socata approve using the limiter.
@davidfabry sells and trains on them. What is the position on torque limits on the TBM?
IIRC POH says that you must not exceed 100 % torque and must not exceed 104 % Ng when setting it.
Loco, JasonC is correct, any exceedance will be recorded forever on the Shadin engine monitor.
As they say….on a PT6 both the throttle and the mixture controls are directly connected to your wallet, and need to be respected accordingly.
