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SR20 N4252G down after two failed landing attempts...

If you turn the AP master switch OFF, you won’t get ESP / EP. It does require the autopilot to be driving the servos, notably the pitch servo.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Fuji_Abound wrote:

Comments about hand flying the Cirrus are also interesting.

Just to clarify: My comments are based on the very few (compared to yours) hours I have in the Cirrus. I think it flies fine, but I prefer the feel of the DA40. A few hundred hours later I might think differently.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 02 Dec 22:34
always learning
LO__, Austria

I flown the DA40 as well and it is a very good aircraft. I think it certainly provides more stick feedback that the Cirrus so you are totally justified, but, as I commented earlier, it is a different aircraft. Sadly, I have just a very few hours in a SF260 having been told by my old aeros instructor that it is an amazing high performance aircraft. I think it terms of pilot feedback it proves it is possible to make a conventional fast single which is totally responsive.

Peter, I think ESP is supposed to kick-in while hand flying. Stall avoidance while on autopilot is an older technology. That sr20 had ESP I believe (all Cirrus after 2011 have it).

United Kingdom

The slick design of the Cirrus results in a small delay between retarding the throttle and seeing the speed actually reduced. If under stress, this could “easily” result in a stall. I tend to agree that you don’t want to fly too close to the stall speed in the Cirrus and that it is a great aircraft to fly. Some people fly aircraft primarily to enjoy the flying while others like the flying but use the aircraft primarily to get from A to B and thus would fly the Cirrus mostly on the AP.

Last Edited by AeroPlus at 03 Dec 06:51
EDLE, Netherlands

IMHO this sad event has little to do with flying a Cirrus, but a lot with bad dicision making by all involved.

First, the pilot: while we don’t know if she had any experience flying into a Class B airport, I suspect she hadn’t. Being able to land a SEP at a Class B such as HOU or LAX is one of the great privileges of flying in the US – however, is it wise? Sequencing a SEP into the constant flow of jets is near impossible and puts a big load on ATC who somehow have to slot you in.

Second, ATC. This must have been the most atrocious controlling I’ve ever heard, especially at a big airport. They were obviously unable to get the sequencing right.. That said, the recording only starts when the pilot is already on tower, so we don’t know if the sequencing fault possibly lies with Approach control. In any case, there would have been a few ways to get her in. Fly offset ( although not sure if that’s still done these days), vector her around to one of the runways that were more aligned with the wind, sending her back to Approach for another try.

WRT the ‘be more assertive’ comments – sorry, that’s BS. What’s the girl to do? Tell tower ‘I’m landing’? I found her calm and collected, albeit obviously overwhelmed at some point. The best thing she could have done would have been to simply go somewhere else. Which brings me back to the decision making. Sad event.

LeSving wrote:

First of all the pilot’s lack of maintaining flyable air speed.
Well, if I remember correctly (I haven’t yet watched the new video) the problem was not maintaining airspeed but rather that the pilot retracted flaps at too low an airspeed.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

You should watch the video (the new one). The speed was well below recommended airspeed, and it kept deteriorating for every failed attempt to land. She also started to ease back on the throttle while climbing, for no apparent reason.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

It doesn’t look to me like the ATC were used to that level of mixed traffic either (which were nothing at al really, one single Cirrus).

ATC at KHOU are entirely comfortable with that level of traffic (Houston is my old stamping ground, I’ve been into KHOU a few times, including as a low time pilot getting checked out in one of Fletcher’s Grumman Tigers). There’s a reasonable level of light GA at Hobby. If anything the controller might have been a bit too comfortable – given that 95% of the light GA traffic is probably the stuff that’s based there or from nearby airports, and those pilots are used to it.

Last Edited by alioth at 03 Dec 10:07
Andreas IOM

172driver wrote:

WRT the ‘be more assertive’ comments – sorry, that’s BS. What’s the girl to do? Tell tower ‘I’m landing’?

She said something like „I guess three‘s a charm“…she was cleary uncomfortable and maybe even embarrassed. And yes ATC could have picked it up and compensated for her. In my opinion one lesson to learn from this is to be clear and assertive to ATC when you need assistance because you are stressed. Plain language works well in the US.
To answer your question: „Tower, I am very stressed. Please give easy radar vectors for a stable long final!“

Last Edited by Snoopy at 03 Dec 12:16
always learning
LO__, Austria
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