You’re assuming there won’t be a UK-EU FTA…
Peter wrote:
How does the UK control French border policies?
The UK does not control French border policies. But the French made a general decision about countries not in the “free movement of people” category. The UK happened to be one.
You seem to be suggesting that France reacted to UK’s refusal to join Schengen, but while that may be true it doesn’t appear to be right in timing. UK never had any interest in Schengen and that was obvious from the beginning. What happened (politically) in 2011?
Switzerland joined in 2009 and IMO in two years it became apparent that as a result extra-Schengen activities at many airports declined to a point where it was no more reasonable to maintain border control. The fact that many airports were affected where traffic from the UK was sizable is just the result of the usual lawnmover-style cutting that states usually do when they have to cut costs somehow.
So there will be some kind of border control.
This is a hot topic in Ireland at the moment. Politicians are pushing very strongly for a solution to be found that would leave no physical border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
But I agree with you. I think in the end, unless the UK remains some sort of quasi EU member, there will be some kind of physical border, as much as people both sides don’t want that.
JnsV wrote:
Switzerland joined in 2009 and IMO in two years it became apparent that as a result extra-Schengen activities at many airports declined to a point where it was no more reasonable to maintain border control.
Do you live anywhere near the Swiss-French border, or where do you get this experience (or your O) from? It is far from the reality.
According to my experience, the removal of many customs airports in France is a big nuisance to aircraft flying in from Switzerland or out to Switzerland. This has nothing to do with Schengen. Maybe they incorrectly assumed that since there is no more need for border controls, they can withdraw the customs status of many airfields, but that would be really stupid because one and the other are not connected.
Indeed; e.g. Wangen-Lachen LSPV lost its “exit Customs” option and is now useless for flying outside Switzerland, despite being close to the southern border and having a load of tourers in the hangars.
The 1/3 drop in French movements was reported by one airport manager. I don’t recall the airport but it was one of the northern ones which lost movements. I am sure this could be researched but it would require a French speaker and some legwork.
The loss around Paris must have been significant too. UK pilots could fly direct to Pontoise and Toussus. Paris was viable for a day trip. Not any more. Now one is facing a ton of crap e.g. finding accommodation which will easily double the cost of the trip. I really don’t get the thinking (if any took place) behind this. There are plenty of examples of non GA reachable capitals (London has no good IFR option, Munich and Berlin, etc) but Paris actually has very good GA airports which are blocked to Brits for no economic reason. Lognes has the police available but must get less traffic than Pontoise / Toussus because it is VFR-only, so this is double nonsense.
Then we get 15 policemen turning up at LFAT, with 1 working and 14 watching…
LSPV offers online customs clearance to/from Schengen countries for 50CHF (50% off for based aircraft).
Rwy20 wrote:
the removal of many customs airports in France is a big nuisance to aircraft flying in from Switzerland or out to Switzerland
Indeed, the only airports close to switzerland with relatively reasonable notice periods are Annemasse and Epinal Mirecourt. The rest, even Colmar, now have previous day or 24h notice periods on weekends.
Peter wrote:
Indeed; e.g. Wangen-Lachen LSPV lost its “exit Customs” option and is now useless for flying outside Switzerland, despite being close to the southern border and having a load of tourers in the hangars
most private airfields in Switzerland have some form of Schengen customs which mostly involves a online form for both arrival and departure at a fee. The trouble is if you want to travel to/from Non Schengen countries. However, that is something which has become cumbersome in most of Europe now with the withdrawal of many airport of entry status for smaller airfields.
From the discussions at the time when all these French airports lost their AOE status, I recall that the French did in fact assume that Switzerland with its Schengen status did not require any customs either and openly said so until they were corrected by the Swiss Oberzolldirektion, who put a stop to them stating that no formalities were necessary for cross border flights. After that, the French revisited some airfields which had lost their AOE status and changed the list quite a bit. if i am not mistaken, Annemasse and Colmar both were to loose their AOE, as well as a lot of others who in the end did not. Also Courchevel was mentioned at the time I belive.
AOE PPR all over the place has become a major hurdle for flying in and out of Switzerland. Not only to France, but at least most German airfields and airports in our vicinity have some sort of PPR for this which makes flights possible. I was in Speyer a few weeks ago and had to fill in an online form both in and outbound, neither of which ever reached the airport… others like Memmingen require elaborate lists of every person on board with ID card numbers e.t.c.
I imagine it is the same with the UK and will become probably more of an issue with the upcoming Brexit when both customs AND immigration will be required again all over Europe for flights to/from the UK.
