IR holders: Would you ever go back to VFR-only and, if so, what would change?

Aviathor wrote:

ATC contact VFR is optional except in class D airspace (the terminal areas for the regional/secondary airports) .

Flight Information Service is usually provided in class G by the unit that controls an overlying controlled airspace. It is the pilot’s choice to get FIS just like one can get Flight Following in the US. Most of France is Class E

Yes, but the question was whether FIS (Flight Information Service) anywhere in the world is intended by ICAO to be a ‘junior’ ATC function, as it exists in may places, or if (more reasonably) optional VFR contact with Air Traffic Control should be per ICAO provided by the same ATC system that controls IFR.

I think one ATC system for all traffic is better, not least because it motivates airspace planners to minimize cases of ATC contact being a practical necessity for VFR traffic.

Aviathor wrote:

I remember I had a WTF moment prior to flying from Chino to Santa Monica. After having looked at the sectional I opted for an IFR clearance.

I have in the past flown a similar route across the LA Basin with neither ATC contact or a transponder, with only a handheld comm on board. I don’t recommend it but its possible & legal in some planes, and not at all difficult.

Silvaire wrote:

I think one ATC system for all traffic is better, not least because it motivates airspace planners to minimize cases of ATC contact being a practical necessity for VFR traffic.

But that is exactly what it is. On VFR charts it is labeled as FIS (SIV in French) but you are actually talking to the Terminal Airspace controllers in most places, on the same frequencies as IFR traffic arriving, departing or in transit. I think the one notable exception must be the Paris area because the terminal airspace is Class A. Not that it is a good reason, but that’s how it is.

Above FL115 you need a clearance (class D)
All of the above applies primarily to France, but it is pretty much the same in Germany and Scandinavia. I do not have VFR experience further South or East but I think it is pretty.much the same. UK is another subject altogether. Everything is much more complicated over there.

I was talking about FIS in the whole world, and in ICAO principle, not just France.

The different issue in France raised by others posting here is the airspace structure is so complex that it intimidates a large fraction of people away from flying real VFR without the need for ATC contact.

Purchase a Cartabossy !
There are many class E airspaces in France. Almost? all the low airways, most of the TMA’s are class E airspaces. The rest are mainly military zones, which not very often active. Just check the notams or ask the AFISO. E airspace is equivalent to G airspace for a VFR pilot(1)

The Week End Cartabossy (12.51€ shipping included in France(2)) shows a France without the class E airspaces and military zones, and it’s simple.
The plain Cartabossy (19.51€ shipping included in France), which is my backup, shows a France without the class E airspaces, it’s not as complicated as you think.
It’s my backup when I want to make a VFR diversion, and even without an iPad, it shows almost everything you need, including info you usually find on VACs (direction, height of the circuit etc.).

(1) Actually almost equivalent. More on that if you ask.
(2) I’m not a stakeholder in Mr Bossy’s business (that’s his real name), I just like the chart.

When weather permits, I prefer to fly VFR.
To leave the Paris area in IFR, you must plan a SID, there is no other way, and it takes you at a level which will be above icing level in the winter, and above cumulus level in the summer. The risk is to be taken by ATC into an icing layer or an unpleasant cumulus that will make it difficult to fly the aircraft. The workload then suddenly increases, you have to request levels or headings to avoid, the ATC may refuse with very good reasons because around Paris you are surrounded with commercial flights. My 172 is neither very powerful not very stable in IFR compared to a TB20, I don’t have an auto pilot, so I tend to limit my flying in clouds to gentle stratus.
Nevertheless, when weather is CAVOK, and if an IFR routing is possible without ridiculous detours, I would file IFR as it makes it easier to leave Paris.
Another good reason to fly VFR is that it makes it easier to access the military airspace.
An example:
From Paris to the south west of France, say Royan, south of Poitiers there is a huge military zone, called zone de Cognac as it’s assigned to the military base of Cognac Châteaubernard. The floor of that zone is 3000ft. In France IFR below 3000ft is forbidden. The only way to cross that zone is
- either very high, and if your destination is Royan it would imply a circling descent overhead Royan,
- or in VFR, and the military always clear you, even if they sometimes assign headings or an altitude. As a bonus you can sometimes see formation flying or nice fighter aircrafts.
I don’t hesitate to fly in marginal VFR weather, as I know that I can control my aircraft in a cloud. I sometimes file a VFR flight plan to make it easier to change to IFR (a filed flight plan is mandatory in France for IFR flying), and more often a Z flight plan to keep the option to make an approach if necessary.

A typical flight plan to Royan can be a depart in CAVOK IFR, a change to VFR once out of the Paris area so that I can fly straight across the military zone, and a change to IFR on the Royan IAF (RY NDB).
I would depart IFR in Cavok,, then fly over a layer of cumulus in VFR, and if I can’t find a VFR way down through the layer before Royan, I would make an IFR approach, otherwise, I would cancel my IFR flight and stay friend with the parachute drop pilot.

Peter wrote:

what is your Plan B for a loss of comms? And it doesn’t have to be a hardware radio failure. It can be a wrong frequency given, or a misunderstanding on the digits (happens often enough).

• Wrong frequency: press the radio flip flop button when you don’t hear anything on the new frequency to go back to the previous frequency, and confirm that the frequency you put in was correct.
• Misunderstanding of the digits: as above
• Hardware radio failure: use icom IC-A22 handheld
• Still no communications? If in controlled airspace, squawk 7600 and continue on the route you gave to ATC, if outside CAS, don’t enter CAS.

Peter wrote:

Plenty of times that may not work, for various reasons. And 7600 will draw a LOT of attention – according to a “senior” chap at Swanwick (on a PPL/IR visit some years ago) you will get “shot down”

I agree that sometimes the lost comm procedures aren’t really applicable and then it might be unclear what to do. But how would it matter that it would draw attention? That “shot down” thing is obviously nonsense. As if it has never happened that an aircraft has squawked 7600 in the UK!

Peter wrote:

you will get “shot down”

That is nonsense. NORDO happens more often than you think. A while back I stumbled upon several reports from the BEA about transatlantic flights where comms were lost and the airplanes continued to destination in Europe NORDO. At least one of them was to CDG. Very interesting reading, especially because you realise some of the shortcomings of the existing procedures.