Please try to differentiate what you’re writing about in these discussions. Schengen = control of people, customs = control of goods. If we keep mixing these up, it will be very hard to have a meaningful discussion. But in whatever way you read that statement, it is not correct.
Well, Medewok was practically correct. Intra-Schengen = no checks (in most cases the police are not even present, based on the flight plan departure airport) so you can bring what you like 
With Switzerland and Norway (Schengen but not EU) is it different.
I’m confused.
Currently we can fly intra-Schengen with nothing more than a flight plan – why on earth would we want a GAR system? I’d actually like to see the flight plan requirement get dropped…
Alternatively, if the ‘Europe’ countries could do a GAR system for flights leaving to, or coming from, extra-Schengen countries – that would be great!
For info, Switzerland is in Schengen. The reason you still have to notify customs (not immigration) is because it is not part of the EU. Many small strips in Switzerland have Customs ‘on call’, you notify in advance and then they choose to come or not in exactly the same way as it works with the UK GAR.
Cheers, Sam.
Rwy20 wrote:
Please try to differentiate what you’re writing about in these discussions. Schengen = control of people, customs = control of goods. If we keep mixing these up, it will be very hard to have a meaningful discussion. But in whatever way you read that statement, it is not correct.
MedEwok wrote:
Afaik the Schengen treaty in practice includes rules which good may be transported without going through customs (things such as alcohol and tabacco usually have a limit on the ammount you can transport).
That’s nothing to do with Schengen, but rather to the EU treaties (Maastricht Treaty if I remember correctly). It applies just as equally to countries such as Ireland and the UK, which are part of the EU, but outside the Schengen zone.
Currently we can fly intra-Schengen with nothing more than a flight plan – why on earth would we want a GAR system?
I guess those who proposed it here meant flight in and out of the Schengen zone.
I’d actually like to see the flight plan requirement get dropped…
FYI, there is no general requirement for flightplans for international flights. It’s most of the countries that want them and thus made these rules. But Germany, Belgium, Czech, Poland and Austria don’t require any.
The main problem is that border enforcement is done by the respective country not Europe, so you will not see a GAR for Europe in future.
I don’t see much point in a system like this. In Schengen area you can move around freely. Into Schengen area it will get more expensive in future.
Customs can will have their travel and time paid now, which can lead to a hefty bill. This will happen for the border checks in future too.
So if you pay 400 Euros for customs and 200 for police immigration checks, you can easily drop into a bigger airport with both present 24hrs.
There are not many people traveling on a regular basis with GA from Schengen to Non-Schengen or the other way round.
Additional visa costs will kill of places like L2K.
I guess those who proposed it here meant flight in and out of the Schengen zone.
Possibly, but I’m not so sure above that. This is what their original post says:
We could develop and make available to them a cloud based solution whereby pilots entering french airspace make a standardised customs declaration.
The idea is to give them equal or better visibility on in/outbound cross border flights vs road traffic plus full logging, database search and so on.
They talk about flights entering French airspace rather than the Schengen zone. They also compare it to road traffic, when the only road traffic entering France is from within the Schengen zone.
Customs can will have their travel and time paid now, which can lead to a hefty bill. This will happen for the border checks in future too.
So if you pay 400 Euros for customs and 200 for police immigration checks, you can easily drop into a bigger airport with both present 24hrs.
Are you speculating, or is there some proposal for customs to charge for attending airports?
There are not many people traveling on a regular basis with GA from Schengen to Non-Schengen or the other way round.
Well, the UK has not imploded yet and IMHO (and despite the wishes of many ) is not going to 
Same goes for Croatia and many places east of there…
Additional visa costs will kill of places like L2K.
I reckon very few people who need visas travel via GA, as a % of the total. But, sure, these people always get hassle. There will never be visas between the UK and any place in (modern) Europe.
is there some proposal for customs to charge for attending airports?
I have never heard of that, but with France you can never be sure, because there is a complete disconnect between economics and “law enforcement”.
dublinpilot wrote:
Are you speculating, or is there some proposal for customs to charge for attending airports?
A bit of both.
Border checks are fee in Germany, but customs on request is a bit pricey. In Hassfurt police invested more than €50k to do proper border checks, but the checks are free.
If you need customs you can book that 24hrs in advance. The difference is two customs officers are driving from Schweinfurt to the airfield. You have to pay their mileage (about 70km return) and time, that means a 300 to 400 Euro bill, depending on how long the whole process takes.
