Europe's craziest airspaces

alioth wrote:

they changed it to class C then said “No VFR allowed”

I cannot find the “No VFR allowed” in the AIP. So I guess you only discover it when you try to get a clearance. Have you filled MOR or FCS1522?

Xtophe wrote:

I cannot find the “No VFR allowed” in the AIP. So I guess you only discover it when you try to get a clearance. Have you filled MOR or FCS1522?

VFR is not allowed above FL195 without special permission from the national CAA. This is not a unique rule for the EU or the UK, but a general ICAO standard.

Airborne_Again wrote:

Xtophe wrote: I cannot find the “No VFR allowed” in the AIP. So I guess you only discover it when you try to get a clearance. Have you filled MOR or FCS1522?

VFR is not allowed above FL195 without special permission from the national CAA. This is not a unique rule for the EU or the UK, but a general ICAO standard.

@Airborne_Again, we were talking about a lower-level Class C.

Xtophe wrote:

I cannot find the “No VFR allowed” in the AIP

It’s not banned, it’s just pop-up VFR (or IFR) is not possible…

ENR1.1, 4.1.11 VFR Flight in Class C Areas of Delegated ATS
4.1.11.1 Charts depicting these areas are detailed at ENR 6-2 pages. These delegated areas of ATS are busy international interfaces. Consequently, approval for VFR flight will only be granted in exceptional circumstances and after co-ordination with and agreement of the respective ATS provider. Applications for VFR access to these areas should in the first instance be made to AUS as detailed in paragraph 4.1.9.

[email protected] Tel: 020-7453 6599 Fax 020-7453 6593

The other fold, is UK ANO used to prohibit a PPL who is not IFR rated to enter Class C (except TRA(G) and Mil), while VFR in Class C is allowed by ICAO there is a consensus that UK VFR is not entitled to any sort of ATC separation (same as in old days when Class A CTR SVFR used to requires 10km visibility and 2kft ceiling for legacy PPL holder who is not IMCR/IR rated, also explains why UK VMC minima in Class D CTR, I can cross it with 1.5km & clear of clouds on VFR scud run with my own separation rather than SVFR with controller separation and blocking a whole level and everything under it )

Not everybody is entitled ATC separation? a denied clearance means: DID YOU PAY FOR IT !

Xtophe wrote:

I cannot find the “No VFR allowed” in the AIP. So I guess you only discover it when you try to get a clearance

They buried it in the ANO. See https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/9353-more-uk-airspace-facepalm-worthy-moments

I’ve heard people trying (and failing) to get a clearance into the class C that goes between Ronaldsway and the Liverpool area, and they are always denied.

alioth wrote:

I’ve heard people trying (and failing) to get a clearance into the class C that goes between Ronaldsway and the Liverpool area, and they are always denied.

Does anyone logs this with the CAA?

Peter wrote:

Any offers on the above?

Pretty simple: the UK, especially the southern part.

172driver wrote:

Peter wrote: Any offers on the above?

Pretty simple: the UK, especially the southern part.

“we’ve got a winner!!!” :)

Peter, I logged this against Luton quite some time ago and was most pleasantly surprised to have a CAA man call me to find more details. He assured me that it would be taken up. To be fair to Luton I have most often find them to be accommodating and giving a good Traffic Service until Radar Control.