Rwy20 wrote:
BER airport disaster deprived them of one major pillar of their strategy to become the main hub carrier for Berlin
Only in their wildest dreams would they have become “main hub carrier” anywhere in the world, especially not in the capital city. Having “Berlin” in the company name does not achieve anything in that respect. And BER will not change anything once it openes. There are four runways now in Berlin and there will be only two when BER takes over, so there is absolutely no place for a “main hub carrier”. There will be a fierce battle for slots and Air Berlin was never in a position to win that. Anyway, they tried hub-and-spoke for years (I remember Nürnberg and Palma de Mallorca (!)) and failed big time. So why should it have worked out of Berlin/BER?
achimha wrote:
Lufthansa should not have gotten a single piece of the Air Berlin remainders and I really hope that the EU will sue Germany for that move and undo it.
I second that. A free market, and this is what EU stands for!, works differently. There has been a (much too short) bidding period for possible takeover candidates – including Niki Lauda (who most probably offered one Euro and his red hat for the lot)… – but someone made sure that apart from LH no serious bids would be supplied. This is not what we want to see.
Does not look like anything dangerous at all to me. From what was written about it, it was planned, it was arranged with ATC beforehand and it was executed in a safe manner. Nobody was put in any sort of danger, regardless of what some armchair experts who have never flown an airliner think.
Professional? Well, are we allowed to be humans and professionals at the same time or is the meaning of “professional” today really only to be a strict observer of the autopilot flying the airplane? If it is true that this thing was planned, was properly reviewed and briefed by the crew before, probably even announced to the passengers who apparently loved it, then what is unprofessional about it… of course there are many who will now scream for the LBA to tar and feather them, but what on earth for. As if loosing their jobs and thousands more is not enough.
The maneuver as it looks on video was executed perfectly within the normal envelope of this airplane and by people who apparently know more than just monitor their AP. I prefer to fly with people like that rather than muppets like the AF crew who did not even have the basic skills to reckognize a stall and safe themselfs plus the unsuspecting pax in their airplane from crashing in the atlantic. Nice to see that there are people who have preserved their flying skills despite flying in this environment.
Frankly, when I see what happens today if pilots react in a human yet safe manner today I think all in all I was lucky to miss my life ambition to become one of them. I would not have been happy in this kind of “Big Brother” environment, that is sure.
As for the bancruptcy and how it was handled, I’d have to say that once again Germany has proven that laws and rules are for others.
How many airlines were grounded and ruined by the EU’s watchdogs crying foul when their countries tried to save them with loans and subsidies? Cyprus just as one example? Swissair, where the EU warned Switzerland who is not even a member that if they helped the airline to survive there would be consequences even though they were threatening a non-member state? Numerous more?
Or in more recent times Monarch? EU law prevented the UK from financing Monarch at least for the repatriation flights, they had to subcharter other airlines at substantially more cost to do that. What gives Germany the right to give a loan they know they won’t get back for an airline to be groomed up for sale? Now Germany gives money to Air Berlin to continue flying despite the bancruptcy so that their state carrier can prepare a lovely take over and create a total monopoly. Marvellous. Where are the EU watchdogs now?
What about anti trust laws? LH now becomes the dominant carrier in Europe as it owns quite a few other former state carriers like Swiss, Austrian and now possibly also Alitalia?
At another thought… isn’t LH now doing exactly what Swissairs then management was called crazy for? Buy bancrupt airlines and build a monopoly out of that? Hunter Strategy all over again but with enough money to actually see it through? Again, if two do the same, it is not the same.
My personal experiences with Air Berlin were ok, the few times I flew with them were just other airline flights. Niki was great when it was still run by Lauda, later it was simply the same as AB.
On looking again at the video on a larger screen than my phone I was wrong. It started higher than I thought. I am still not sure it was a good career move for someone looking for a new job but didn’t look unsafe.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
How many airlines were grounded and ruined by the EU’s watchdogs crying foul when their countries tried to save them with loans and subsidies? [..]
What gives Germany the right to give a loan they know they won’t get back for an airline to be groomed up for sale? Now Germany gives money to Air Berlin to continue flying despite the bancruptcy so that their state carrier can prepare a lovely take over and create a total monopoly. Marvellous. Where are the EU watchdogs now?
Before crying foul, you should actually know EU law and point to a specific rule. Air Berlin did not get government money to be saved even though they begged for it many times over the years. Only after they filed for bankruptcy, a specially secured loan (i.e. senior to all other debts) was given after seeking the EU Commission’s approval in order to not cause chaos. Imagine all airplanes staying where they are, all crew, all passengers because they won’t get fuelled etc. The amount of the loan was designed to avoid chaos until the bits and pieces were picked up by others and it was less than what the acquires would pay, i.e. with a very high chance of being repaid. This is very common and done in all similar cases.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
so that their state carrier can prepare a lovely take over and create a total monopoly
That’s nonsense, Lufthansa is a fully private company. The government sold the last shares a long time ago, ancient history.
The whole process was massaged in favor of Lufthansa which I find wrong. However, you really can’t accuse the government of abusing taxpayer money or violating EU law. It looks like Easyjet will get a sizeable chunk of Air Berlin as well.
achimha wrote:
That’s nonsense, Lufthansa is a fully private company. The government sold the last shares a long time ago, ancient history.
Sure it is… yet any government who would stand by and watch it fail would have to resign the next day. It may be private on paper but in the minds of the politicians and most people it IS the state carrier. And as you can see, the government does not seem to think that differently, they do not own it anymore but they sure act like they do.
achimha wrote:
The whole process was massaged in favor of Lufthansa which I find wrong
Yes and of course this was at least tolerated if not actively helped by that government.
Fancy that the EU commission should approve a priority loan (which in bancruptcy is something very critical to do as it takes away potential money from the workers and others) when they did not even give the chance to others. Either states should be given the right to save infastructure vital to them or not. If not, then please same for everyone. Cyprus, which btw is an island in case you’ve missed that, was robbed of it’s airline without any consideration for the fact that this cut them off any cyprian owned air link from the rest of the world. And the Swissair thing, apart from massive treason comitted within Switzerland as well, was exactly again in the favour of the same usual suspects, as at that time LH was very interested in closing them down (and Zurich as well). So incidently the EU informs the ministers that they would not look kindly onto any form of financial help and would actually consider removing flying rights e.t.c at just the same time when EVERYONE else pumped massive aid into the airlines to keep them going after 9-11.
Corruption is everywhere but the EU knows very well who calls the shots in such cases… after all who should challenge them.
JasonC wrote:
On looking again at the video on a larger screen than my phone I was wrong. It started higher than I thought. I am still not sure it was a good career move for someone looking for a new job but didn’t look unsafe.
In other places some people suggest the administrator should demand the Captain to pay for the fuel used. What utter bull… I actually hear that even Air Berlin knew about it and approved it, which if true would then hopefully silence the voices which demand the crew to be summarily executed.
I am amazed at some of the reactions, such as calculating how much precious Jet A1 was used in this unnecessarily. Hello, this was saying good bye to several decades of long haul ops by first LTU and now AB who took them over and it should just go like this? I do hope that the LBA as well as those in charge will support these pilots and those who knew about it rather than nailing them to the cross.
Some of the reactions (in the media) to this simple go-around, after all a standard maneuver, are completely ridiculous. I found it professional and a good way to say “good bye”. I bet the passengers enjoyed it too.
Just read a media announcement here that Air Berlin has “suspeded” the crew from flying duty. What a farce. There is no more Air Berlin and flying with the aircraft in question is over since that last flight. So who did suspend whom from what exactly?
