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How many hours to transition to a new non-complex SEP type for day VFR operations?

I did a checkout on a C182 last week. I had no previous high wing aircraft experience.
We did some forced landings and 5 circuits (2 normal, 2 flapless and 1 glide in). 55 minutes total.

I have 470 hours PIC.

A checkout where you have to fly a minimum of 5 hours for a non-complex SEP is ridiculous.

Slightly OT, but finally (the night before) I decided to rent my regular Arrow (HA-SFK) last Saturday and asked a some friends and family members whether they wanted to come with me on the positioning legs (LHNY-LHBS and return). It turned out that an ex-colleague had always wanted to try flying in small plane, knew that I was a pilot, but for some reason never asked me before. I was glad to be able to offer her this opportunity to take two rather long flights, which she very much enjoyed. So, at the end, I did not “waste” any legs, gained a new potential pax for future flights and had an incredibly good day.

As far as those outfits are concerned with their 4-5-hour-long checkouts for a C172, they will not get any business from me until they take a more reasonable position.

Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

lenthamen wrote:

Pilots that cruise at low VFR altitudes will probably always fly with mixture full rich.

Which means they have not been properly trained how to use it.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Pilots that cruise at low VFR altitudes will probably always fly with mixture full rich.

That is because they were taught the engine would explode if they touch the red knob below 5000’. The engine should be leaned at any altitude.

LFPT, LFPN

Would I strictly legally need flight hours to transition to a C152/C172 (as mentioned further above my FI reckons about one hour of training for me)?

No. A mixture lever is not considered “complex”.
Pilots that cruise at low VFR altitudes will probably always fly with mixture full rich.

I think the Swiss FOCA was of the opinion that you would need differences training for a “downgrade” in variants (e.g. EFIS to six pack), but the German view (which is in line with the EASA texts, because neither “red knob” nor “six pack” are actually variants that could be endorsed) is that you don’t. But don’t take my word for it.

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 05 Jul 21:52

Reading the list I notice that a mixture lever is not mentioned. I got my PPL on a Rotax powered Aquila which does have a VP prop but no mixture lever. Would I strictly legally need flight hours to transition to a C152/C172 (as mentioned further above my FI reckons about one hour of training for me)?

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

Unless the other SEP aircraft is different(1), the number of hours legally required is 0.
You must get familiar with the aircraft, the reading of the POH/Flight manual is legally sufficient. It can take a number of hours of ground study to get familiar with the POH/FM though.
I think that many flight schools demand more flight instruction (and less ground study) than necessary.
(1) there are 7 differences
EFIS
TW Tailwheel
P Pressurised
VP Variable Pitch
RG Retractable Gear
SLPC Single Lever Power Control
T Turbocharged.
To be allowed to fly a different aircraft, you must receive a training by an instructor, who will endorse your logbook.

Last Edited by Piotr_Szut at 05 Jul 20:05
Paris, France

huv wrote:

To compare, when I was a 200 hrs VFR pilot, I was told to expect about 5 hrs for a PA-46 Malibu checkout, with the prospects of renting the Malibu afterwards. Fair enough

That’s very fair, any maybe too little for most 200 h pilots. The PA-46 IMHO needs a very thorough checkout.

I cannot offer any views on this that has not already been mentioned, just my vote/opinion/experience on the original question.
I am mostly instructing in a club environment, and most instructor-aided familiarisations are1-1½ hours block time, very often combined with a SEP(L) revalidation. If I know that the pilot is capable and experienced, I might let him introduce himself to a new non-complex type or just do a short flight to point out a few important things to note.
Conversely, for some low-time pilots, I would not let them go from a PA-28-140 to PA-28-151 without a checkout, due to the very different nature of the two airplane’s wings.
Of course this is a club environment, but even the commercial rentals here would not require more than one lesson for a checkout as described.

To compare, when I was a 200 hrs VFR pilot, I was told to expect about 5 hrs for a PA-46 Malibu checkout, with the prospects of renting the Malibu afterwards. Fair enough.

huv
EKRK, Denmark
34 Posts
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