Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

IFR clearance question (and traffic avoidance, IFR OCAS, etc)

The violation was 91.13, careless and reckless operation. You can search on NTSB EA-3935 for a copy.

KUZA, United States

The violation was 91.13, careless and reckless operation. You can search on NTSB EA-3935 for a copy.

There has been a story reported on the pilot forums for many years that there was a bust in the USA for a departure into low IMC in Class G, and while the is no possible clearance (or lack of) in Class G, the pilot was busted for not having filed an IFR flight plan. I wonder if there has been more than one case…

Or you use FIS

Only if they have radar etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Only if they have radar etc.

Which they usually have. Except in the UK.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I doubt it, you have to be a fool and annoy others at the airport to get it reported. If you just do it, no one will probably know. It is still reckless, but not likely to be detected. Most infractions are never noticed, you normally have to do something stupid and be noticed.

KUZA, United States

I had to follow the lost comms procedure a while ago on a flight to a bigger airport in Germany. I lost my radio and transponder shortly before getting the “cleared for ILS” and I was still in class E on an IFR flight plan. I landed, the guy from the authorities showed up pretty angry as he believed i was flying VFR and pointed at rest of ice dropping from my wings. There was a low cloud base and I had to descend through it shortly before landing but I was VMC at some 1000ft AGL as I recall.

The guy heard the word “IFR” said “ok” and drove off. I signed the report from the firefighter (big show) and that was it.

I certainly would not hesitate to do what it takes to land safely in a lost comm situation. As I lost my transponder I was on primary radar only. Per the conversation prior to losing power I was told to expect a certain runway and the way to it meant to cross the approach of another runway which I did in order to stick to the prior conversation.

As there is a flight plan and they have tapes I simply continue what was last communicated – either in writing or verbally. There should be no surprise.

Frequent travels around Europe

Do you think the loss of comms was due to P-static?

Peter wrote:

Only if they have radar etc.

…or you have TAS/TCAS.

The only thing that Radar gives you that TAS/TCAS doesn’t is primary contacts and the chance that you will encounter a non-squawking aircraft in IMC is so, so small that you can reasonably ignore it.

You are so much more likely to have a mid-air in VMC than IMC that these conversations bewilder me.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

You are so much more likely to have a mid-air in VMC than IMC that these conversations bewilder me.

It is a human trait that we want to be in control of risks (or have the illusion of control), feel that we are in a position to ensure a good outcome. We do not like to be subject to a random force and rely on our luck. This trait is more pronounced in the German speaking societies than elsewhere. I can assure you that the thought of flying through clouds and assuming nothing will happen because the chances of somebody else crossing your trajectory are slim, is something people from Germany have a very hard time subscribing to. It very much is a cultural thing.

Last Edited by achimha at 10 Jul 07:45

But do German pilots have better eyes than British or Scandinavians?

I mean “See and Avoid” is awful. It just doesn’t work. Especially if you have to keep looking inside more complex aircraft with more systems and smaller windows.

Many of these conversations make me think of Proverbs 3:5:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

Except that we substitute for the LORD “the law”, OWTs, “What my instructor told me”, “instinct” and “anxiety”.

EGKB Biggin Hill

I’m not disputing the relative safety, just saying that there’s a cultural aspect to it that people from the UK might not be aware of.

Sign in to add your message

Back to Top