We Achim, I know that isn’t true. Or do you just like to block Australians?
That of course but I should have said that I tend to not cancel IFR when in IMC even if it means I get charged 4€ extra. A wasteful attitude I admit…
What about filing IFR to the IAF or one WP before that and then VFR. The controller will probably not notify EDMS and there will definitely be no electronic exchange. If the weather was bad however, you could still do the IFR approach.
That’s a Y flight plan, which is explicitly mentioned in the Gebührenordnung as being subject to the fee.
The airport will not know about the Y flight plan, because processing it will stop at or before the IAF. There´s no need for me as a controller to coordinate with “Info”, I will just tell the pilot that he´s approved to leave frequency after cancellation.
Caba 15-Oct-15 00:37 #32
What about filing IFR to the IAF or one WP before that and then VFR. The controller will probably not notify EDMS and there will definitely be no electronic exchange. If the weather was bad however, you could still do the IFR approach.
The way it was explained to me was that once you make and IFR flightplan to that airport the airport is notified that an IFR flight will take place with them being the destination airport. It could be because it is an International flight I dont know. But once they get that notification that it is an IFR flight they will charge it as an IFR flight even if you cancel 30NM out. Which is what I did after descending through a layer. By the way at the airport it was CAVU.
To be fair they did say a Z plan would not be charged. Which means a VFR airport.
However, now I suppose I do a Z plan with the destination airport the questions become can I even do it if the weather is marginal or IFR? What happens if the forecast requires a an IFR flightplan? What about alternates? What happens if as is so often the case the weather clears while enroute even though it was forecasted not to yet I have filed an IFR flightplan and cancel like I did nowhere near the airport? What happens if the weather becomes IFR yet Im on a Z plan, will they allow me to remain in the IFR system and make the approach? The controllers are very accommodating but Munich is pretty busy will they be annoyed if some schmuck is lousing up their order? “Oh another one of those GA guys.”
Alexis Lets take this out of the realm of aviation for an instance.
Lets say your at a restaurant and you have Beer and an entree. After finishing the meal you ask the waiter about dessert but decide you dont want any of them. You get the bill and a dessert is on there. When you ask the waiter about the charge he explains that since you asked about it and that the restaurant has desserts available you should pay the dessert charge. After all he explains it cost the restaurant money to make the desserts. Now compared to the Beer and entree its a small charge would you pay?
To me all of this comes down to opinion. You can turn everything into a profit center. Then you will be forced to charge for everything and of course create quite a bit of accounting overhead to keep track of what you need to bill. You will also need the people to do all of that. That will eventually create an attitude towards that everything has a price and it’s all about charging and charging.
You can also have a systems point of view and understand that some things are enablers for others. However, that is much harder and it is much harder in a climate where egoism fueled by fear of getting the short end of the stick is growing. Because some people feel they don’t want to subsidize something they will never use directly themselves. Sure, they do fail to understand the system but they do have their feelings and their opinions may influence decision makers who draw their power from votes.
By treating the airport as a profit center the city mayor can defend it against critics who try to shut it down as unnecessary. It will backfire as soon as the airport shows a loss in its balance sheet. It doesn’t matter that from a systems point of view it still works as an enable for local businesses and creates more income than it looses on the mere surface of a profit center balance sheet. Nobody has the numbers to easily show that.
C210_Flyer wrote:
When you ask the waiter about the charge he explains that since you asked about it and that the restaurant has desserts available you should pay the dessert charge. After all he explains it cost the restaurant money to make the desserts.
I think the example is more that you order the desert and then cancel it. You didn’t eat but they had to make it.
I got Y and Z mixed up and didn’t check the wording again with my first post. So arriving IFR on a Z plan is free, and departing IFR on a Y plan costs the fee? And arriving VFR on a Y plan you also have to pay?
@ Jason: ;-)
