Does this happen on certified aircraft much?
I have never read such an accident report mentioning a fire, of a type which incapacitated the crew.
I have read of IIRC several homebuilt crashes where there was a massive fuel fire and the pilot was “finished” by that and a crash was inevitable. The last one I recall was due to a rigid metal fuel pipe which cracked (vibration) and came off.
But I am amazed to see fuel hoses which are not fireproof-sleeved, and not just on homebuilts. The Thielerts have them on top of the engine. But to be fair so do Lycos/Contis (the distribution spider). Presumably it is assumed that those don’t come off too often.
But I am amazed to see fuel hoses which are not fireproof-sleeved, and not just on homebuilts.
That’s why there is a firewall between you and that engine 
Once I had a fire warning in a twin Cessna over the English Channel. Incidentally, the halon bottles of the engine fire extinguishers had been removed for their x-year overhaul/check (maybe 5 years?) so there would have been no way to extinguish the fire. The fire extinguishers were optional equipment on that aircraft and we were allowed to fly without them. Totally stupid in hindsight. Luckily, we could see no smoke or any other signs of fire so continued to our destination Blackpool. It turned out that a crack had formed in the exhaust and the hot gasses triggered the fire sensors. Some rubber hoses inside the engine nacelle had been slightly scorched, but were still functional. A local mechanic helped us by fixing a temporary sleeve around the exhaust so that we could fly home in the evening (would not be possible now with EASA/CAME/CAMO…).
Much more frequent than fire is electrical smoke. Myself, I had one nasty experience – again on a twin Cessna – with the windshield anti-ice that had a short circuit somewhere. Almost instantly after turning on the anti-ice system, thick white smoke came out from the bottom part of the windshield, right before my eyes. The cause was obviuos so turning off the anti ice stopped the smoke instantly (again with some luck because the glowing cable could have started a fire somewhere behind the instrument panel or damaged other wires in the vicinity). No circuit breaker tripped because that windshield anti-ice draws a lot of current in normal operation already.
Several colleauges of mine had electrical smoke from different sources, the worst one was an overheating cabin fan whose smoke came out of all cabin air outlets at once, rapidly filling the cabin. The incident resulted in a genuine emercency landing with Mayday and everything.
In flight fire is something truly terrifying to me, owning a fabric covered plane with typical antique ways of positioning fuel tanks (in the fuselage and right underneath you!) Fortunately it is very rare.
If you had an engine bay fire (can see some flames escaping but not a visible inferno) and your over the sea (cold water) and 10 minutes from land, would you
a) continue to fly for those 10 minutes
b) turn the engine off and ditch
c) something else?
An in flight fire is one of the true emergencies in aviation for which you need to get on the ground ASAP. Firewalls are rated for time but you can never know when the fire started. Clearly if you think the alternative (ditching) is worse than the risk of fire burning through the firewall you can continue.
On the Meridian I had an exhaust put on incorrectly which allowed hot exhaust gases to enter the engine compartment. Glad the cables nearby had been heat shielded.
If I am over the water, it means I am probably flying high. My first action would be to dive to gain as much speed as possible – it serves three purposes: get to the shore faster, lose altitude to be able to ditch right away if push comes to shove, and it may in some cases also blow the flames off. I would also go full throttle, slightly lean of peak (unless it visibly increases the fire).
I agree, it is the worst which can happen and it WILL lead to an accident if not dealt with very very quickly. Especcially if we are talking fires happening in the cabin.
My former emplyoer had three of them happen to them, two of which lead to horrible accidents with loss of all on board.
I agree with the findings of Boeing that in case of an out of control fire on board, either the landing happens within some 15 minutes or “the accident is a fact.”
In recent years, in flight fires were happening to cargo carriers more than others but they still do happen and the results are usually fatal unless the airplane in question is on final approach or very close to a landing.
Engine fires are mostly manageable if suppression systems are installed and working. In any case, it is relatively easy removing the fuel to the fire by shutting off the fuel valve, however there is still enough oil and other stuff to cause significant damage. Equally, fire drills are important to know for those still equipped with carburettors. How to deal with a carb fire is one of the things you MUST know and be able to exercise without even thinking. Yet, they are sometimes difficult to spot from the inside. If you have the possibility to have someone watch from the outside while starting up, this may well help to prevent such incidents.
For the small aviation such as ours, a fire means land “NOW”. Either there is loss of engine power involved, together with an incertain condition of the said engine (you can’t really know if the fire is out unless you have a fire warning system) or, after a fire incident in the cabin, you can’t know a) whether there is residue damage to the wiring, whether there are still nests of fire you can’t see or know about until you open the door on the ground. This is particularly true for pressurized planes or others where the cabin is tightly shut. Flashovers can happen upon opening the door, as they happened to an Air Canada DC9 after successfully landing at Cincinatti many years ago.
There is not much I am genuinely afraid of, but fire is one of those things.
That’s a scary video, Lucius! Thanks for posting it.
Cause: bad maintenance?
What I don’t understand is why some CB didn’t trip. Maybe the current being drawn was just below the CB rating? Every wire in an aircraft is supposed to be overcurrent-protected with a CB, except
If you had an engine bay fire (can see some flames escaping but not a visible inferno) and your over the sea (cold water) and 10 minutes from land, would you
I would descend to a low level, say 300ft, from which a ditching could be made quickly, and would proceed to the nearest bit of land. Obviously if the fire was in the cockpit an out of control then one has to ditch right away.
The NTSB has accidents with piston twins where the fire goes through the firewall and through the main spar. The EASA CPL calls for emergency descents are practiced straight ahead with full flaps, throttle closed, and descending at the top of the white arc, with the gear up. The US practice is for full flaps, gear down, top of the white arc or Vlo whichever is lower, and a thirty degree banked spiral descent. Depending on the scenario (electric, engine, fumes in the cockpit, etc) memory touch drills apply.
The US recommended technique produces prodigious rates of descent approaching 10,000 fpm – the DPE wants to see the VSI pegged. Both require the pilot to demonstrate leveling off at a pre-agreed level. Most firewalls on GA pistons are rated for around two or three minutes, hopefully someone comes along with the correct number, so descending at the fastest controlled rate of descent seems the correct response.
I have had an engine fire during run up when an exhaust tube failed, but fortunately was on the ground. It occurred at the thresh hold of Madrid Barajas so the mid morning rush hour commercial passengers got something to chat about on their flight.
Have also had faulty circuit breakers which decided to smoke, these in flight, requiring action.
Engine fires on start up at the Acme schools is a regular occurrence – especially when there are still many instructors attached to the lets exercise the accelerator pump on the carburetor as much as possible on start up as the ‘correct’ technique…for ensuring an engine fire.
