Yes, you are right Peter. But ask around – most pilots will not dare to do what i did. Out of some strange kind of fear …
But Achim is right, in general a pop-up clearance for enroute IFR should be possible, I have to admit though that I have not done it. I only do it the other way round – cancel IFR when I don’t need it anymore or when i change my plans.
Something that almost always works is getting a “practise instrument approach” when on a VFR (training) flight because that can be handled by the approach controller alone without waking up Brussels in the process.
But it still stays a VFR flight with the “maintain VMC” phrase being added. So it is not actual IFR but simulated.
To express an opinion: I find this whole business about IFR/VFR and filing flight plans in the air / on the ground quite a bit weird. IFR/VFR are rules and depending on which one I choose there are services I can / am supposed to use. I do understand that flow control may cause a not very favorable clearance but it should never be a reason for not allowing a pilot to switch to IFR with ATC service regardless for which reason the pilots elects to switch the flight rules. I guess that is what SERA also intends to fix.
I understand that when looking at this from the perspective of big airport airline people then there is a benefit for being able to pre-plan everything. If I ask for a pop-up IFR clearance to fly into a big airport, then I will certainly accept to be put at the end of the queue. But en-route there isn’t really any traffic issue with all that many free altitudes available.
At the end it probably comes down to politics and SERA seems to have fixed that. Good!
@achimha Can you elaborate how autorouter notices pop up IFR clearances? I’m curious.
But ask around – most pilots will not dare to do what i did.
That’s for fear that the request is denied and when you descend anyway (sooner or later you will have to) everybody knows that you are violating the visual flight rules… One difficulty with this kind of request, especially in Munich during busy times, is to get your call through in the first place. It will be handled by an approach controller who already has to coordinate simultaneous arrivals to two runways at 30-60 second intervals. I would say that between seven and nine in the morning and after five in the afternoon your chances will be marginal.
most pilots will not dare to do what i did
Maybe that is a fear of some German reg and their often publicised €50,000 fine which I am sure is as theoretical as much else in aviation enforcement… Or maybe they don’t have an IR, which which case they have to use “mayday”. If they do have an IR, where the hell did they get it? Mars?
Maybe that is a fear of some German reg and their often publicised €50,000 fine…
That fine (theoretically) also applies if you fly IFR to a coordinated airport (e.g. my homebase EDDS) without having obtained an airport slot before filing the flight plan. I don’t think anyone has ever been fined, but try to file a flight plan without ASL/myslotnumber under field 18 and you will get back one page of computer generated legal blabla mentioning that fine several times. This makes a pop-up flightplan even more difficult unless the person on the radio also obtains the airport slot for you.
@achimha Can you elaborate how autorouter notices pop up IFR clearances? I’m curious.
By route finding activity of users working for an ANSP… We don’t support AFIL yet but ANSPs are usually connected to their AIS to do the actual flight plan creation. As long as a flight remains within their FIR, they can handle it internally but once you cross FIRs, they have to create an IFPS compliant flight plan. It’s what they have to do according to SERA but it’s not great because you need a plethora of information to create a Eurocontrol flight plan, including the aircraft’s performance model and it’s far from trivial to come up with a good flight plan with information passed over VHF.
The Eurocontrol backbone allows AFIL and we can support it. I’m looking for a good use case, it would have to involve satellite communication most likely — perhaps with the ADL? 
This makes a pop-up flightplan even more difficult unless the person on the radio also obtains the airport slot for you.
We have gotten access to the computer system that hands out slots in Germany and we could automatically obtain it for the user. For now we just warn that it is required but one day we’ll integrate it. Personally I hate country specific stuff, a waste of effort in a single European sky.
But it still stays a VFR flight with the “maintain VMC” phrase being added. So it is not actual IFR but simulated.
It depends. On several occasions I have been asked “are you instrument rated” and was issued a genuine clearance for an instrument approach. No “maintain VMC” or anything.
By route finding activity of users working for an ANSP…
So ANSP staff use the autorouter? Interesting… I would have thought that Eurocontrol provided som tool for them.
The whole idea of Pop up IFR is safety. Many times your enroute to a destination when there is unforecasted wx which would require scud running. The options are diverting to a VFR airport for most of which around here req PPR. Most have no facilities or ground transport . There are all sorts of reasons why a POP Up IFR would make sense.
In the states Ive seen too many people even with Instrument ticket push on in MVFR that turns IFR and come close or become a CFIT stat.
Im surprised that more emphasis isnt put on safety rather than a dumb 50000Euro admonishment.
Im surprised that more emphasis isnt put on safety rather than a dumb 50000Euro admonishment.
That’s the past. With SERA, pop up IFR is available in all EU member states. Everybody can be happy.
