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Loneliest cruising altitude

The one time I tried enroute from Augsburg to Dresden in the middle of nowhere far away from Munich and Frankfurt I was denied.

Maybe because I complained to DFS that their payment reminder arrived before the invoice 8-)

LSZK, Switzerland

Actually, UK, almost nobody is at 3000ft or above. This is partly due to a lot of low level CAS and a legacy of PPL training which is done mostly c. 2000ft.

That is true, though where I can, I am one of those who do go above 3000 and fly on top, and it does surprise me that I never see anyone, but even if one looks at forums frequented by UK people, there are a lot of people who say they like to fly VMC on top. I guess UK is still a fairly sizeable piece of land, and there aren't that many pilots all flying at the same time. So this so far proves it is the safest place to be (generally)

Most people flying VFR ignore it, and anyway the base of CAS is so low in many places (1500ft or 2500ft) that you can't follow it and be above the MSA.

That is often the problem for us non-IR rated people. It's very difficult to fly long stretches anywhere in the UK (unless you do a lot of wide dog legging around controlled airspace) to pick a FL compatible with quadrantal or semi-circular rule and be able to happily stick to it.

Never been refused in airspace C above FL100. Just ask and if they're not convinced mention the weather.

I had a funny occurrence a 2 weeks back. In FL170, the controller told me the next sector will not accept me and I have to descent to FL95 within the next 20 miles. I tried the weather joker, but they insisted. So I went down to FL95 for about 50 miles and climbed back up later.

United Kingdom

I had a funny occurrence a 2 weeks back. In FL170, the controller told me the next sector will not accept me and I have to descent to FL95 within the next 20 miles.

Was that VFR or IFR? On a IFR flightplan over airways, once you have your enroute clearance, they can't just deny you on a certain sector, can they?

FL430 is fairly quiet :)

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

I had a funny occurrence a 2 weeks back. In FL170, the controller told me the next sector will not accept me and I have to descent to FL95 within the next 20 miles. I tried the weather joker, but they insisted. So I went down to FL95 for about 50 miles and climbed back up later.

Yeah, I'd like to see some, ahem, details posted of where, when, route filed, etc.

The only way I can think of this could be done on a Eurocontrol filed IFR flight is if there was an airspace issue on the day (sudden mil activity e.g.) or one filed an off-airway DCT which went through something like that (which Eurocontrol probably won't pick up on but you can't actually fly it).

I would also ask details of what is going on. The PIC is entitled to e.g. not descend into icing conditions, on a filed route, no matter how hard ATC insists. Normally ATC would offer a re-route. Imagine doing this to Air France, A320, Heathrow to Brussels, etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When: 11.06.2013. VFR. Route: EDQT GED DCT TOBAK Z671 BEDSI Z671 ROLIS Z658 EMGOD .... After 1st contact direct GED FL120 then 170 after GED. Direct BIGSU, just before BIGSU the controller demanded me to descent to FL 95, due to refusal from next sector. I told him I'm unable to comply due to clouds (tops were about FL80, but hard to tell from above). He said I need to descent within 20 miles. I eventually gave in, went down to FL95, changed to FIS and asked for higher. Got a direct DODEN with a new squak and back to FL170. The next controller asked whether I want a shortcut and shortly after that I received a heading which was a DCT to LNO. Belgium was no issue.

United Kingdom

OK; just plotted that EDQT GED BIGSU BEDSI ROLIS...

About 10nm after ROLIS you have Class E up to FL100. Not sure what class is above FL100 but normally one CAS's top is another CAS's base.

But with VFR all bets are off. There is no clearance whatsoever. You get what you get.

What were the enroute notams I wonder (a Narrow Route Briefing)?

Once, over Italy, I was cleared A - B - C (VORs, in CAS) and when I got to B I got handed to another controller who told me to get out of CAS. He didn't care about any previous clearance. He just wanted me out. So I turned left 90 degrees and carried on down the middle of the Adriatic, all the way to Corfu.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It is Class C above FL100. Class E is controlled airspace, but you don't need a clearance VFR, in C you do need a clearance. This is why he dropped me into E. Nothing in the NOTAMS. There is no map of sectors, because they use dynamic sector allocation in that area. I'm pretty sure I climbed back up in the next sector.

United Kingdom

Am I the only one to find all the national differences in airspace and air law exhausting? And I haven't even flown abroad yet. Would I find it less daunting if I had? Is it any easier from this perspective to fly IFR with an instrument rating?

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