Looking for Cessna 170/172/175

Actually, I believe the original intent was for PZL to put the bigger Franklins on their Seneca, the PZL M20 Mewa – which now has been bought out by our friends from the East – Jiangesu. But yes, the smaller one made it to the Rallye clones PZL was making, the original PZL-110 Koliber; the later and larger models – the -150, -160 and the PZL-111 Koliber 235 were powered by Lycoming engines (O-320 and O-520 or 540 – sources differ, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was both).

@ArcticChiller – reach out to me directly and I can certainly call them and ask, although I’ll be surprised if they don’t have someone that speaks English around. That said, they do not reply to emails well – I’ve been waiting for a reply all this week, and all I wanted was some XC 20W50 and Camguard…

Since United Technologies and (now) Airbus split up PZL starting I believe about 2005, the status of Franklin engines in Poland has been unclear to many. The original reason for PZL buying Franklin in the 70s must have been something to do with PZL’s similar purchase of the Rallye design. Certainly some French built Rallyes had Franklin engines but that was 50 years ago…

To me the ‘elephant in the room’ is whether Polish built Franklins have ever actually been produced in measurable quantity since 1975, what aircraft they have been used on, and with that in mind what their current business might be? All I’ve ever seen is a few 220 HP engines supplied for STC installation on Stinsons and C175s – but that is only a very few engines.

Yes, our Franklin is a 6A-350. As far as I know it was built at the original factory in Syracuse NY. But it was overhauled to 0hrs in Poland some time ago at PZL. Our Swiss mechanics say they did excellent work. However, the type certificate is now under a new company (https://www.franklin-engines.com/en/) and we never had contact with them, except that we talked to them at Aero Friedrichshafen. They said all parts are available (respectively, they can produce all of them), as well as new engines. According to their website they also produce the 4-cylinder 4A-235.

It always seems to me that Americans say parts are hard to get and overseas that might be true. But in Europe new engines and parts seem to be available. We would be very interested in hearing an update on the factory (e.g. if they really are producing engines/parts and possibly the work on their STCs etc.). @tmo I assume you are fluent in the Polish language… any chance you could give them a call and ask? :)

@Jelen, I wouldn’t assume that a Franklin engine is not practical in Europe. It probably depends on the specific model. @ArcticChiller flies a very nice C175/Skylark with a Franklin 6A-350 and I’m not aware that there are any issues with maintaining it. Perhaps he can comment. See here. But I’ve heard that the Polish factory supports and is further developing that engine (Mogas & injection STC’s?), which might not be the case for the smaller engines.

I wonder if buying a plane that’s been sitting around for ages, and which one should assume has a corroded engine, is worth doing.

The engine can’t realistically be checked without pulling cylinders. Many previous discussions – examples – and some can be done using this method. So you are taking on a big risk, especially as the plane is going to be worth zero if the engine needs a rebuild, and possibly negative value if the crankshaft is corroded also.

Pulling a cylinder – example – is not a big deal but you need somebody good, and obviously you want to do it before you buy it, which is politically hard to organise. However if you are an EASA66 and the plane is below 1200kg then you have more options.

In the US people have more options for doing a “repair as necessary” on an engine. There are many freelance A&Ps around. In Europe the engine business runs on a “gold plated” model. This is not saying they all do a great job – most engine shops reportedly do not do a good job – but there is little flexibility and everything is expensive.

I know someone who found an abandoned for many years C172 somewhere in Greenland, shipped it (or flew it?) to the UK, and ran it for some years without problems. They never did oil analysis and I doubt the oil filter was ever cut open This is ok if you just do local flights and don’t care if one day you have to dump it.

Talk about confusing… Thank you for that history lesson / overview.

Franklin was sold to the Polish (PZL) in the 1970s but the engines they make or made differ in detail from the originals. There was a US company that represented the Polish manufacturer, selling engines for STC installation and for homebuilts, but apparently the business was not sustainable. The different company in Texas apparently bought new old stock parts made by the original US manufacturer that are eligible for installation on those engines, and otherwise supplies what they can to Stinson, Bellanca etc owners.

There is also this company that similarly attempts to supply parts and service for the US built Franklins – there are enough separate small companies doing it that it’s confusing.

Immediately after WWII Franklin had arguably the best 150 HP and over engines on sale but the company was bought by Tucker Automobiles with the idea of supplying advanced car engines. That venture came to a rapid end and Franklin never recovered. The engines have a large inspection panel on the top of the crankcase which is a neat feature, the six cylinder Franklins are very smooth, but the inlet manifolds are crude and as a result fuel distribution and efficiency is not as high as it might be.

If they were just a little bit faster, I think I’d have a Stinson 108.

I don’t know which they support or really make (they list two engines on the site) but they claim to be the continuation of the original Franklin. Very possible they only support the engines on their page, but an interested party can reach out and ask. That said, they will likely want unobtainium prices, so a US source of quality used parts is a good resource to have.

I know we sent off a Lycoming off a C152 to them for an overhaul and had no issues with the work, nor pricing.