A final update on this project which now has been concluded successfully.
The airplane was ferried early in 2019 after weather concerns delayed the ferry and has been put through an extensive annual combined with the installation of a 8.33 radio and overhaul of the magnetoes which was decided to be a prudent action. The new owner has taken the airplane for it’s first flight post maintenance a few days ago and is very happy with the value he has received. The airplane is in excellent shape and has been taken well care of over this winter to bring it back to flight.
I am very glad to have been involved on the sidelines.
The story shows that the normal gut feel about airplanes which have been standing for a while can have notable exceptions. And that it may well be worth a closer look before doing the usual running job recommended by a lot of forum experts.
Incidently, in the mean time I was involved in the purchase of another PA28 which had not been standing that long but faced similar issues in terms of avionics and upgrades. So that is two new owners in the last 5 months or so whom I had the pleasure of helping along a little. Good feeling I have to say.
Little update as far as I got it.
In order to assess the engine condition I contacted a renowned engine shop in Switzerland who pointed me to a maintenance organisation near the location of the airplane, a guy they work with and trust. The engine shop owner told me on the phone that given the time involved damage was likely but not inevitable and what steps would have to be taken to verify it. The mechanic owning that organisation was recommended by them as very capable of assessing the state of the engine and deciding whether a revival should be attempted or not.
In the mean time the airplane has been checked on the spot by the recommended mechanic and pronounced to be in excellent condition. The engine was inspected and appears to have no corrosion whatsoever, neither in the cylinders nor elsewhere. It appears to contrary what the owner knew it WAS actually preserved after the last maintenance action, possibly with more foresight than the owner had. The mechanic, who at first was very cautious, now is positive that it can be revived without too much hassle and ferried to his workshop under permit to fly where a comprehensive annual would follow as well as 8.33 COM installed. It alrady has mode S. Looking at the preliminary offer, the total investment looks very realistic, given the fact that he can take over a much sought after hangar space at his home airport and the airplane being under Swiss register already.
I have been away so did not have a chance to see the plane, but it appears that the guy will have another talk with the owner to adjust the purchase price a bit and then go for it. I will follow his progress and report once I know more.
I’ve owned and flown lots of Lycomings that have had large periods of inactivity, which occurred in prior ownership. In three instances I have had the cylinders removed to check the cam, followers and bores. The three times we did it we found nothing to worry about. I’ve flown with Lycoming engines that were not rebuilt since the late 60’s and well over TBO. What most people won’t tell you is you can measure the wear on cam lobes without removing the cylinders. In the H2AD you can even look at the followers, as in some TCM engines. One instance was a Lake I took out a hangar where it sat for unpreserved 7 years at the coast and flew it to Romania, pulling the pots off that was a complete waste of time. The engine was perfect and never skipped a beat, only after we gave it a thorough shakedown over a few weeks completing many airframe tasks. Everyone has their own checklist of things to do when flying an aeroplane that has been dormant for a long period.
I’d be more worried about the aft spar, or what’s behind the fuel tanks on the spar.
alioth wrote:
There’s a good chance that he won’t get many hours out of the engine it’s got on, but he has at least got some hours out of it so far.
So the idea is to squeeze every last drop of “flying liquid” out of that dead horse? 
Am I the only one who see that this is a ridiculous idea? Nothing wrong with old planes. I regularly fly vintage aircraft (70 years old). The difference is they are well maintained, and have been for all their lives.
Not totally relevent but worth the re-telling. Twenty years ago (at least) when I was first based at Nuthampstead, there was an N reg Piper Comanche/180 parked outside our hangar, in all weathers. It had been there for some years. It was tatty to say the least. After I had been resident for five years, it one day dissapeared. The scuttlebut said that two American pilots had bought the plane and flown it away!
Peter wrote:
Also some parts of the US are quite dry. Nowhere in Europe is dry.
He’s in North Carolina. I’ve lived in North Carolina. It’s dryer than Manchester, but not dryer than the south east of England. I would argue that the interior of Spain is pretty dry (the landscape around Zaragoza for instance is more reminiscent of central Texas than the rainforest).
Peter wrote:
And indeed here is just such a case, prob99 due to it having been a hangar queen before they bought it, except that they had apparently spent so much money getting to the stripping stage that they carried on… One lesson from that one is that you can have corrosion inside the front of the crank (how – surely that is full of oil??) and you can inspect that by removing the prop.
I had the same question when I was looking around t buy may plane a few years ago. I was told that as water is heavier than oil it just ends up in the hollow crank. I was also told that there was some SB where you had to inspect hollow cranks, ream out any rust and put a coating on to stop further rusting. Luckily I have a solid crank so it’s one thing that I don’t have to worry about.
I was thinking about Peter’s comment. Surely if the filter was checked every 10 hours for the first year and one was really diligent with oil analysis etc, a sudden stoppage would be highly unlikely. Ten x oil filters cost peanuts compared to the cost of a new engine and they might just get lucky?
Silvaire wrote:
the current condition will largely reflect the storage conditions
Well, these were good. The plane was and is in a hangar and actually the same hangar where the buyer wants to take over if he buys it. It’s one of these lost medical stories where the owner deluded himself that he would get it back eventually. It probably will have to be ferried as the airfield where it is hangared has no maintenance organisation on the field.
Plane is a Cherokee-180 Challenger from 1972, TTSN 3500 hours. The engine is the original engine and has about 3500 hrs total time and 1500 hours since the 1st and only overhaul which happened in 1985. The airplane has not ever been used for training or rental, it was always in private hands or so the seller has told the buyer. But looking at the TT this looks realistic. From what I have seen, the airframe itself is in good condition, complete and reasonably equipped for VFR, it will need a 833 radio but that is about it avionic wise. Price reflects the status yes.
An overhaul would be about 20k€ so if it is not necessary then it would be a pity to waste that money, yet the question remains about this 36 year thing.
Stampe wrote:
.I think 36 years was a figure mentioned in their offering where they will not accept an engine as having any core value.
Ok, I found out about this. 36 years after the last overhaul is a figure after which Lycoming will not consider an engine for core value, which means you can still get it field overhauled by an engine shop without much problem but you can’t send it for exchange to Lycoming e.t.c.
I talked to an engine shop this morning and they suggest sending someone there to boroscope the engine and to reach a verdict whether it has to go to them or not. He thinks that in a dry hangar, there is a 20-30% chance they will get away with maintenance vs overhaul. Will see how this develops.
That was in the USA, and it would have cost him way more in Europe. Look at the $180 for a new battery Also some parts of the US are quite dry. Nowhere in Europe is dry.
This is somewhat related. The post there by me relating to a PA28 at Biggin Hill was also sitting there for 5-10 years, and eventually the oil filter rusted through and oil started leaking out of it. A friend of mine, EASA66 + A&P, was tasked to do a prebuy on it for a friend of mine. He found all sorts of dodgy stuff and then had to make a quick getaway when some people threatened him over being too honest (the owner of the bit of tarmac it was parked on was really keen to get rid of it).
There’s a good chance that he won’t get many hours out of the engine it’s got on
The problem is that this is not like a lawn mower, which just stops cutting the grass when it stops… If you have corrosion, you prob99 have metal around, the oil pump is at risk, and that leads to pretty a sudden engine stoppage. I heard of one of these just recently – into a field, due to a failed oil pump. Now, if you were doing oil analysis, diligently checking the oil filter, etc, and you did that before you bought it (before the seller had a chance to change the filter and the oil 
) AND you never flew over water or mountains, that’s different, but how many people really do that?
In an SEP, it’s too big a chance to take – if you want a plane you can just fly to places, rather than hack around the local area, over flat fields.
Sometimes you get lucky.
Someone over on Reddit saw a Cherokee that had been sitting in the open with flat tyres for a decade. Of course he bought it cheap ($1000) but it turned out to have really very little wrong with it, despite having sat outdoors in all weathers for a decade (other than very bad paint). There’s a good chance that he won’t get many hours out of the engine it’s got on, but he has at least got some hours out of it so far.
