My impression of those who complain about doing business with hobbyists is that their customers know too much, and have time and enthusiasm for their activity. It’s therefore a lot harder to delude them with BS and rip them off. A friend in the motorcycle biz found his solution in BMW, because the customers aren’t the sharpest bunch. He’s built one of the most successful dealerships in the US after figuring that out, and given the generally inflated bills can even afford to be reasonable to the few customers that politely and accurately demand it.
Better to be a plumber because in that retail business you can quite openly rip them off, they know it, and they’ll take it. The customer just wants his hot water restored so the wife is calm again, he has little interest in the details, and if it costs $1600 to get an $800 unit installed in three hours…. meaning over $250/hr, that’s fine. Just get it done today, and no I don’t need an itemized bill. I’m speaking from recent experience as a customer 
gallois wrote:
He used to take his Aston Martin to a small garage in a mews in West London. The owner of the garage only had one arm. Whenever my friend rang he would be greeted cheerfully.
What a difference that makes …. ‘service with a smile’
Better than what you often get these days … ‘the customer is always wrong’
I agree that there are customers who are reluctant to pay for anything (preventative or not). That’s why I tried to tell the story in as much details as I could, so that people would try to judge for themselves. I am usually “do more” guy when it comes to maintenance, but my priority is engines, airframe, controls – important stuff, not a plastic panel inside. So, my message is not just “this shop is bad”. Although, as I see from one of the comments here, I am not the only one with such an opinion, and it matches mine in overall feeling (nonprofessional), money is what follows…
So, the story got continuation. The guy refuses to deliver the parts, or give money back (complete prepayment was made). When I show him his own invoice with his signature where conditions are clearly stated, he doesn’t care. He just wants it to be his way, that’s it. 8yo child. It’s not just unprofessional, it’s fraud. Avoid at all costs.
FWIW payments made by credit card (when that is the case) for goods not subsequently delivered are in my experience pretty easy to cancel with the CC company.
gallois wrote:
A customer expects a certain quality of service at a a price they expect to pay. If they do not get that, then they have a right to complain.
I fundamentally disagree! Complaints – especially public ones that could seriously damage ones business – should never be based on expectations but rather on agreements. If you boom the cheaper room in a hotel you can’t complain that you got the cheapest room – even if you would expect an upgrade. Basis of many complains is actually a failure of the customer to clearly communicate (and contractually agree) their expectations.
But even beyond this, the challenge with “public complaints” is always that it is difficult (even if the customer tries hard) to give the full picture.
Let’s take the current example:
I’m not at all implying that the OP did something wrong – but I’m seeing some indications that OPs actions have been inconsistent with his expectations and therefore there is room for misunderstanding.
My comments were not in fact strictly related to this case but Yes, however you look at it there was something wrong here. The customer did not get the service he believed he had paid for.
He has a right to complain in whatever way he sees. It seems to me he first and foremost just wanted to be heard. If, as seems the case here the company does not want to listen and if as a result, they lose business or even go out of business, that is their problem. “He who pays the Piper calls the tune”.
In France with such problems you have a right to call in an expert to arbitrate. You also have a right for the vast price of €1 to go to the local judiciaire (judge) who have their own police/gendarmes attached to their department. The police/gendarmes can call anyone who might know something about the case including the experts and ask that they come for an interview. They can be quite intimidating for your average citizen. You feel guilty even when they are not accusing you of anything. Once all the interviews have been carried out the judge reads the dossier and makes a ruling.
Malibuflyer wrote:
Complaints – especially public ones that could seriously damage ones business – should never be based on expectations but rather on agreements.
Complaints can be based on anything but the owner has to defend the business with the arguments. Unfortunately, that’s how it works today.
However, it seems that here we have the opposite case. In this particular case I believe that customer is right but unfortunately he doesn’t have easy mechanism to prove it and gets what he paid for. I remember similar case we discussed here on forum few years ago.
Malibuflyer wrote:
I fundamentally disagree! Complaints – especially public ones that could seriously damage ones business – should never be based on expectations but rather on agreements. If you boom the cheaper room in a hotel you can’t complain that you got the cheapest room – even if you would expect an upgrade. Basis of many complains is actually a failure of the customer to clearly communicate (and contractually agree) their expectations.
@Malibuflyer I think there are two aspects of it:
1. Adherance to written terms, and it really helps if there are some! For example, the gardener that services the house I rent always uses texts/e-mails and defines what he is doing and how much it would cost. In my opinion, the assessment must be made before the task is intitiated (and this must be paid for, if it takes more than 10 min).
2. Expectation of the services provided. What the company say they will do vs what they’ve promised in writing vs customer expectation. Sometimes company says “don’t bother about what it says in the contract, we’ll do it 5 hours, not 50” and they don’t. Other times company says “there are these and these things which are undetermined and we can’t confirm how much it will take/cost until we open it, it will be between 5 and 60 hours, we will inform you as we progress”, but the customer hears 5 hours.
If 1. is breached and the company refuses to fix, then it’s the matter for the courts, and there is nothing stopping you from complaining about this (if it does not affect the upcoming case).
If 2. is breached, then it’s more complicated.
I fundamentally disagree! Complaints – especially public ones that could seriously damage ones business – should never be based on expectations but rather on agreements.
I couldn’t agree more. Agreements were made, including in writing. Please see one of my posts above. And this is a continuation – which proves the attitude for previous issues.
The shop worked 50 instead of the expected 7 hrs. – what was the specific agreement? Didn’t they agree that the shop would call if the work would exceed a certain threshold? I would always tell my shop to call in advance if they realize they are more than 25% over budget
It was worse. Call was made and price/time named and I agreed, it was about 10 (TEN, Karl!) times less than the one billed.
After the shop exceeded the work hour expectation by more than 600%, the customer paid 90% of the bill (why 90%? what is the reason for a holdback when the job is actually finished?) Must be after the job was finished because as expectations have been 7hrs the customer would not have paid 50hrs in advance… Therefore it would be extremely important to know, what the agreement at the 90% payment has been.
To clear this one out. Expectation was for the issue to be fixed and things agreed on the phone done within the amount agreed on the phone. Result: a) main issue WAS NOT fixed AT ALL, b) other unrelated and unagreed things were done and amount on the things agreed was 10 times higher than agreed. Yes, it’s THAT wild. That is the only reason I decided to write, otherwise, it’s a normal customer-shop complex relations. But this guy conducts fraud!
Why did I mention 7 hours… The cause of the main issue I came with turned out to be quite standard and if done according to procedure, could have been easily found by experienced personnel (see my other post about generator on this forum). It turned out that personnel absolutely inexperienced on the type was assigned to do the work, and maintenance manager himself does not have much of actual experience on the type (even though, it is in his license). This wasn’t Cessna.
Customer ordered additional part and paid in advance. At which point in time? Why did customer make another payment after they did not receive the parts for the first payment?
“Additional” in this context means not related to works done. Payment was made before work was completed, for planned work when those parts arrive. So, there was no “first” payment or parts. Those are the only ones.
I’m not at all implying that the OP did something wrong – but I’m seeing some indications that OPs actions have been inconsistent with his expectations and therefore there is room for misunderstanding.
Shop said one thing, did another. And now do not want to adhere to agreement made IN WRITING (on parts). There can’t be another interpretation of this, although, I do admit my opinion is biased (I am the prey here).
But again, I do agree with you in general. Agreements must be made, expectations defined. This worked for me for many years with many shops. We had arguments and up to this point we’ve always solved it to the benefit of both parties. And by the way, I never had ANY serious arguments with any shops for ten years! But this one is just… special.
There’s also common sense, you know. We are all aviators, and common sense is often the only thing we can refer to! ;-)
